Then go look it up your damn self instead of asking us to do your thinking for you and then being insulting when you don't get an answer you like.
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Several Swordmage Subjects That Need Answering
- Thread starter Ravingdork
- Start date
Then go look it up your damn self instead of asking us to do your thinking for you and then being insulting when you don't get an answer you like.
Ravingdork
Explorer
I missed that somehow. Thanks! I'll go have a look at that.
EDIT: Thank you Jack99 and DracoSuave! That answers my middle question perfectly.
Last edited:
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I've given you a gentle warning above, so now I'll say it bluntly.
If you're not prepared to follow the ENworld civility rules, you will be banned.
The most appropriate response from you would have been "sorry, didn't mean to cause any offence" or something similar. If you've got a question about moderation you email the moderator rather than respond in the thread.
Thanks
Diceboxisfull
Explorer
Weapon Focus feats will apply to your attacks with the Weapon keyword, but not to those with the Implement keyword. Swordmages have attacks that are either one or the other. This is pretty well established. With that said, you have a couple of options:
1) Ask your DM to house rule it and provide some logical reasoning behind it- aside from just "I use my weapon to attack."
2) If you want to benefit from WEapon Focus, choose only attack powers that have the Weapon Keyword
3) Or, conversely, choose the appropriate elemental focus feats that function like Weapon Focus feats. You may get more mileage out of these than a weapon focus, particularly if you pick one or two elements to focus on. I believe most, if not all, Swordmage attacks have some sort of elemental keyword (though I do not believe there is one for "Arcane" yet).
If you are concerned about improving your damage output, there are many, potentially better, ways to do it with a swordmage other than with weapon focus.
The Swordmage is a very versatile class, but you pay a price for that versatility... namely that it is difficult to pump up your damage through just one feat.
@ Raven: I have found Draco's posts on this board to be very helpful and extremely knowledgable in the past. When he posts, I usually listen. I think you may owe him an apology.
1) Ask your DM to house rule it and provide some logical reasoning behind it- aside from just "I use my weapon to attack."
2) If you want to benefit from WEapon Focus, choose only attack powers that have the Weapon Keyword
3) Or, conversely, choose the appropriate elemental focus feats that function like Weapon Focus feats. You may get more mileage out of these than a weapon focus, particularly if you pick one or two elements to focus on. I believe most, if not all, Swordmage attacks have some sort of elemental keyword (though I do not believe there is one for "Arcane" yet).
If you are concerned about improving your damage output, there are many, potentially better, ways to do it with a swordmage other than with weapon focus.
The Swordmage is a very versatile class, but you pay a price for that versatility... namely that it is difficult to pump up your damage through just one feat.
@ Raven: I have found Draco's posts on this board to be very helpful and extremely knowledgable in the past. When he posts, I usually listen. I think you may owe him an apology.
Ravingdork
Explorer
I imagine I owe everyone an apology at this point.
I apologize for my uncouth behavior.
Plane Sailing
Astral Admin - Mwahahaha!
I imagine I owe everyone an apology at this point.
I apologize for my uncouth behavior.
OK, that's cool!
Good luck with your epic halfling swordmage
Mathew_Freeman
First Post
I imagine I owe everyone an apology at this point.
I apologize for my uncouth behavior.
Apologising for something is worth a comment. Thanks!
Put up a post in here about how the game turned out - I'm interested to get some more feedback on epic 4e play.
RigaMortus2
First Post
You may or may not know this, but I just want to mention, that you also do NOT get to add the weapon proficiency bonus when using a weapon as an impliment.
You are stretching the rules. If you're DM allows you to get away with it, then no quote here is going to help.
The Swordmage mechanics allow you to use a sword as an implement. When it is being used in that fashion, it is weapon, not an implement. You get neither the Weapon Focus bonus nor the proficiency bonus to hit.
Look up the warlock pact blade in the Player's Handbook. It very specifically indicates that you do not receive the proficiency bonus on attack rolls when using a pact blade to make implement based attacks.
This is an indicator that the game designers intended for implements and weapons to function seperately even when a weapon is both an implement and a weapon. The Holy Avenger is set up exactly the same way. You neither receive the proficiency bonus to hit or any bonus to damage roll bonues that apply to the weapon or melee based attacks because the Holy Avenger is being used as an implement, not a weapon for powers with the implement keyword.
For you to try to apply weapon focus to implement powers is you trying to stretch the rules for every little bonus. Weapon Focus is bonus damage for a weapon. An implement is not a weapon, it is an implement. You don't receive either the proficiency bonus to hit for the weapon or any bonus damage applied to the weapon. That is the rule. It is all over the Player's Handbook. Look up Holy Avenger and Pact Blade. And look at the rules that specifically state you get to use your sword as an implement as well as a weapon.
Why would it even bother to state that the sword could be used as an implement if it was both at the same time? 4E was very careful about delineating between the two. You should be too.
The Swordmage mechanics allow you to use a sword as an implement. When it is being used in that fashion, it is weapon, not an implement. You get neither the Weapon Focus bonus nor the proficiency bonus to hit.
Look up the warlock pact blade in the Player's Handbook. It very specifically indicates that you do not receive the proficiency bonus on attack rolls when using a pact blade to make implement based attacks.
This is an indicator that the game designers intended for implements and weapons to function seperately even when a weapon is both an implement and a weapon. The Holy Avenger is set up exactly the same way. You neither receive the proficiency bonus to hit or any bonus to damage roll bonues that apply to the weapon or melee based attacks because the Holy Avenger is being used as an implement, not a weapon for powers with the implement keyword.
For you to try to apply weapon focus to implement powers is you trying to stretch the rules for every little bonus. Weapon Focus is bonus damage for a weapon. An implement is not a weapon, it is an implement. You don't receive either the proficiency bonus to hit for the weapon or any bonus damage applied to the weapon. That is the rule. It is all over the Player's Handbook. Look up Holy Avenger and Pact Blade. And look at the rules that specifically state you get to use your sword as an implement as well as a weapon.
Why would it even bother to state that the sword could be used as an implement if it was both at the same time? 4E was very careful about delineating between the two. You should be too.
Danceofmasks
First Post
It's not as obvious or clear-cut as you put it ...
Take axe mastery as an example.
It states that you score a crit on 19-20 with melee weapon attacks.
Throwing it isn't .. nor is a close burst 1 attack .. 'cos it very obviously only applies to powers that say, "melee weapon."
In contrast, light blade precision does not specify that you have to be using it as a weapon. Nor does the daggermaster class feature.
Now, they shouldn't apply to implement attacks, but RAW is ambiguous.
You could argue that "light blade" is a weapon group, and therefore only applicable to weapon attacks, but the bottom line is, you're still attacking with the light blade when using it as an implement.
Take axe mastery as an example.
It states that you score a crit on 19-20 with melee weapon attacks.
Throwing it isn't .. nor is a close burst 1 attack .. 'cos it very obviously only applies to powers that say, "melee weapon."
In contrast, light blade precision does not specify that you have to be using it as a weapon. Nor does the daggermaster class feature.
Now, they shouldn't apply to implement attacks, but RAW is ambiguous.
You could argue that "light blade" is a weapon group, and therefore only applicable to weapon attacks, but the bottom line is, you're still attacking with the light blade when using it as an implement.
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