Sexism in D&D and on ENWorld (now with SOLUTIONS!)

[The_Gneech]

...if you know what I mean and I think ... nevermind.

-The Gneech

 

[Umbran]

Open up ANY magazine -- it doesn't have to be GQ or Glamour -- open up Time or The Economist, and look for sexualized themes and images in ads. It will take you about five seconds, if you're truly attentive.

Problem: To quote Tom Lehrer, "When correctly viewed, everything is lewd." Much like rudeness and edition warring - if you are actively looking to find sexuality, you'll find it, even if it was not present originally.

 

[Garthanos]

Problem: To quote Tom Lehrer, "When correctly viewed, everything is lewd."

Exactly .... we bring to the table what we have in our heads .... don't think you are right on rudeness and edition warring ... much of that is flat out blatant and requires absolutely no "looking" for it nor do I think it is usually accidental. But you have closer experience with it and I wasn't here in the early days of the era of the edition wars...

 

[Rel]

if you are actively looking to find sexuality, you'll find it, even if it was not present originally.

This method has worked for me!

 

[pawsplay]

Problem: To quote Tom Lehrer, "When correctly viewed, everything is lewd." Much like rudeness and edition warring - if you are actively looking to find sexuality, you'll find it, even if it was not present originally.

Well, a lot of sexualized images in advertising are intended. And a more than cursory examination will probably make this quite evident. Glancing at their web pages, it looks like the current Coors and Michelob campaigns are actually not that sexualized, but beer is pretty reliable for finding those kinds of images. For instance:

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Most people go to the free clinic to get rid of carbs, or so I hear.

 

[Desdichado]

After realizing this, I have started intentionally injecting female opposition.

Yeah, me too.

What?

 

[Furby076]

In fact, you're really just starting with a conclusion and then expecting everyone to chime in and agree with you, rather than have a serious discussion.

Anyone who knows anything about the evolution of the hobby knows why it's predominantely male. It originated with wargames (overwhelmingly male), merged in elements of fantasy literature (at the time, mostly male), and for a number of reasons was mostly attractive to the geeks and the nerds. Throw in some early bad publicity, and voila.

Issues with your argument
1) Who cares how we got here, we are here, and Shilsen is trying to come up with a discussion of how do we change the climate
2) Since when is geekdom relegated to mostly men? Just because there is a stereotype does not mean it's true. I know tons of geeky girls, about as many as I do men
3) Since when do women not like fantasy literature? You say at the time, do you think they just started to like it in 1980? Come on - that's a craptastic argument.
4) Since when do women not like wargames? Have you seen the military? When I was in college army rotc, about 40% of my classmates were female - some were geeky, and some were hot (one was homecoming queen).

Your opening salvo was making gross sociological generalizations - without proof.

Like everything else, it's evolved. The truly sexist RPG stuff is the butt of jokes (eg FATAL), or has been coopted by women gamers themselves (the chainmail bikini). The only games that draw gender distinctions anymore are the ones with some greater focus on realism or historical accuracy, and even with those it's largely lip-service.

Have you seen some the current DnD books/pictures? The men are wearing full plate armor that looks like armor should, or long flowing robes. The women are wearing full plate armor that hugs their body like a wetsuit. And if they are spellcasters - well no full robes needed, skimpy loin cloth will do.

The bigger factor is that most people got in to RPGs because someone they knew introduced them to the hobby. When you're young, that's primarily other people of the same gender and background.

Maybe in your youth women were scarce to you, but in my youth women were a plenty...see what I did there, anecdotal evidence.

And as the hobby matured, so did the gamers, and the demographics spread. Hang around with some adult gamers, and see how many are part of groups with married couples.

Anecdotal. I have gamed with many people over the years (probably 30-40 if i were to guesstimate), and only one of the married couples played together - and the wife only came to spend time with her husband and her husbands friends. Again - though - anecdotal, just like your comments.

And they're raising the second generation of gamers, sons *and* daughters. One of the mods here let his daughter GM at a couple ENWorld gamedays, and she wasn't running the game for kids, but for adults. I don't think he would have let her do that if he thought that gaming was a sexist endeavor.

Or he eliminated/minimized the sexism. Or he could be one of those parents who could care less about sexism and figures a bit of blunt reality would be good for his daughter. You shouldn't guess what other people think.

Every gaming group I've been a part of has had female gamers. They ran the same gamut that the guys did, good players and bad, powergamers and drama queens, rules-lawyers and space cadets.

Shilsen never said that female gamers couldn't run the same gamut as males, he said that sexism is the issue preventing more females from joining the game.

Sorry your post brings nothing more then anecdotal evidence - actually just personal evidence from you- and doesn't argue the point Shilsen is making. I am sure it is arguing some point, but not what the OP is making.

 

[AdmundfortGeographer]

Well, that steaming pile of dueling anecdote with equal anecdote was not worth tread necromancy.

But it makes it worth going to unsubscribe from this, pronto!

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Re: Fiction demographics

There was some recent research published in Publisher's Weekly that noted that, among adults, men tend to prefer non-fiction over fiction, whereas women tend to prefer fiction over non-fiction.''

There is also an element of fewer males being dedicated readers than females (IOW, those who read more than just the newspaper or periodicals).

Other sources note that there is also an age differential in habits- young males and older females are more likely to enjoy genre fiction & derivative products (such as RPGs and computer games) than older males and younger females.

I've yet to see actual reliable numbers on particular genres broken down by gender...though I'd bet that Romance is generally read by women and Horror by men. Beyond that?

I'd just be guessing.