Shackled City, "Zenith Trajectory" -- Players' Perspective?

[MerricB]

G'day, Jeff!

For that matter, how was a 6th-level group supposed to beat an EL 9 red dragon? And an EL 8 7-headed, 21d6-breathing hydra?

It's actually an EL 7 Red Dragon.

A party of four sixth-level character should be able to beat the Red Dragon and the Hydra... because they are likely to be the only encounters for that particular day of adventuring. Rest and recuperation are key to a lot of these modules, as you proved when you rested before going after the Kuo-toan priests.

Mind you, the Cryohydra is tough...

The Erinyes, however, is almost too much. Looking at the actual module, I don't think it's too much, though, for a normal party. Your party is extremely sub-optimal at the moment: you're at the worst levels for a mystic theurge, and you're the only spellcaster. A normal party will have a 6th or 7th level Cleric and a Wizard for these encounters. Tough? Absolutely.

The do think that a really paranoid and clever party shouldn't need to face the Erinyes. The really nasty thing about the set up is that it occurs just after you've let your guard down, having dealt with the priests.

Cheers!

 

[Jeff Wilder]

It's actually an EL 7 Red Dragon.

Well, okay, but I'd argue strongly that dragons are under-CRed by at least 1, and probably 2. You simply cannot convince me that the fiendish umber hulk we faced (and beat fairly easily) is anything near as tough as that dragon.

One question about that encounter ... how does a dragon with a 40-foot cone breath weapon affect an area with a 50-foot radius? I get the whole "flying up and breathing straight down" thing, but since cones are equilateral, shouldn't the effect be a 40-foot radius?

A party of four sixth-level character should be able to beat the Red Dragon and the Hydra... because they are likely to be the only encounters for that particular day of adventuring. Rest and recuperation are key to a lot of these modules, as you proved when you rested before going after the Kuo-toan priests.

I get that, but "rest and recuperation" isn't much help if the encounter is capable of killing you when you're fully rested, as, IMO, the dragon, the cryo-hydra, and the erinyes all are.

Remember, there was absolutely no warning before the dragon attacked, and the PCs are caught out in the open. (This is as far as I know. It certainly was true for us.) In fact, I was so shocked, as both player and character, that I assumed the dragon was an illusion and lost my first round of action.

The cryo-hydra, I suppose, could be prepared for, given enough stealth and preparation of resist cold spells. I'll concede we dropped the ball on that one, so it ended up much more dangerous than it could have been.

The Erinyes, however, is almost too much. Looking at the actual module, I don't think it's too much, though, for a normal party.

How does a normal 6th-level party deal with her greater teleport? Her SR? (A 6th-level caster needs, what, a 14 on d20 to affect her at all, aside from her undoubtedly very good saves?) I'm extremely skeptical that 4 normal 6th-level characters can handle an erinyes ... especially on the immediate heels of another tough fight.

Your party is extremely sub-optimal at the moment: you're at the worst levels for a mystic theurge, and you're the only spellcaster.

Actually, once my theurge hit 8th level (3rd-level spells in both), I figured the worst was over. If these are the worst levels, when does it get better? When do I get to be the uber-broken munchkin prestige class everybody keeps going on about? 'Cause I gotta tell you, I'm not seeing it.

But yes, that is part of the problem ... we're definitely sub-optimal. On the other hand, we're also 8th level, rather than 6th.

really paranoid and clever party shouldn't need to face the Erinyes.

Oh? Are there clues to her coming that we missed? Some way to stop it? If so, and they're genuinely available to a reasonably intelligent group (which we are), that would go a long way toward explaining the encounter.

 

[msalzer]

Oh? Are there clues to her coming that we missed? Some way to stop it? If so, and they're genuinely available to a reasonably intelligent group (which we are), that would go a long way toward explaining the encounter.

Time for the GM to pipe up. I don't think that the sound of drums for a few rounds prior to her showing up is sufficient "warning" to the players that something this powerful is showing up, so I'm not sure what was meant by "really paranoid and clever party shouldn't need to face the Erinyes." Unless there was something very revealing that I missed, this entire encounter is crazy.

I would like to thank everyone for the advice and not revealing things to my player.

Mark

 

[MerricB]

Detect Magic and Detect Evil are wonderful spells.

Have a look at the "auras" that are listed at the start of each encounter.

A paranoid party, knowing they were low on spells, would look to be in a defensive formation (and near the door) when they heard the drums starting.

Mind you, your party is so magic-poor that the kuo-toa immediately preceding would be much, much tougher than they should be.

Cheers!

 

[MadMaxim]

I agree with you, wilder_jw, that this encounter is close to a complete party kill. The erinyes is tough (then again, when aren't they tough?). I recently ran this adventure with my group, and I believe it was only because the team consisted of a Janni, an Azer Barbarian, a Human Favored Soul, a Half-Elf Ranger and a Human Monk (with Vow of Poverty) that they survived. They had just fought the Kuo-Toa priests and warriors and then this thing showed up, and it quickly pounded the Janni into the dirt (he was low on hit points from the fight before). However, it had difficulty hitting the Azer and when the Monk stepped in with his Holy Ki Strike (yeah, he's going all the way with Book of Exalted Deeds), he pretty quickly messed her up. They were all around level 7-8. So even with a pretty mixed and high-powered group, this can be a real pain. I hope your DM goes easy on you.

 

[Saeviomagy]

Sure, I think I can dig up a potion of clairaudience/clairvoyance or an elixir of swimming. What kind of one-shot items were you thinking of? A scroll of dismissal would sure be nice, but we're fresh out. Ballpark, I'd say we have the equipment of 6th-level characters. (My theurge has substantially more, crafted himself, but none of it is offensive.)

What I mean was non-utility stuff - potion of fly, blur, oil of bless weapon that sort of stuff.

Assume we have a counter to invisibility (faerie fire) and to flying (retreat to close quarters). How does that help us with an erinyes? As for a means of escape ... well, I've never wanted rope trick more in my life, but who knew? Aside from plane-shifting or teleport, the erinyes can follow us anywhere we go, by means of her greater teleport. Hell, she can get where we're going before we do.

Only if she knows where you're going. She can't just imagine "the location those guys are going" and teleport there. She has to know where you are actually going. If you can move quickly enough, or sneaky enough, you can get away. Not to mention the fact that if she was called, she was called for a reason. Unless the reason is "kill those intruders", then you have a decent chance she won't even follow you from the shrine.

My DM made a big deal out of her flaming bow, so one possible option is to sunder it and force her into melee combat, where our dwarf has a shot, even against her DR. It'd be almost impossible to take her down, but he might be able to force her to retreat.

If anyone has any suggestions as to tactics, I don't think my DM would mind (as long as they're not based on stuff we couldn't know in-character.) He's reading this thread, so if he does mind, he can speak up.

Frankly, most of the demons and devils are not that scary in melee. Not for their CR when compared with (say) an animal or vermin. Get up close. Stay up close. Wail on her bad. She will drop.

The key is how to get up close. If you have close quarters you can retreat to, that's a good start. Grappling is also a very good suggestion.

 

[Squire James]

As a DM who ran that adventure, I'm kinda baffled that the chaotic Sea Mother would even be able to call a lawful outsider, much less be willing. I recommend to your DM that the "erinyes" is actually a Green or Grey Slaad using his Change Shape ability. You wouldn't get a huge break out of it (we're still talking EL 9 or 10), but at least now the encounter makes sense and is do-able!

 

[demiurge1138]

Well, Blibdoolpoolp was NE in 2e (which is why there are still so many monks in kuo-toa tradition). The authors of the module just didn't fact-check.

Demiurge out.