Shaman AC too low?

[vhailor]

If the shaman doesn't pick armor prof (hide) at 1st level, and he follows the Protector Spirit path (which means that INT or Dex will be max 14), he has AC 13-14. I understand he is someone who fights from a distance, but isn't 13-14 too low? Also, almost all his attacks are ranged 5(not too far from the enemies). The wizard who is more likely to be involved in melee, since he has some good close attacks, has AC 15+.

And for those who will remark that he will rarely be involved in melee combat, I ask you this. If your party faced an enemy who can heal his allies and has AC 13, at least one of you wouldn't move close for the kill? Why should any intelligent enemy we face act otherwise?

IMO Protector Spirit Shamans should take a bonus to AC like Avengers or Swordmages do. Or maybe use their Constitution to determine their AC, like the sorcerers do with their strength.

 

[DracoSuave]

Shamans are squishier than warlords, clerics, and bards. They also have two zones of OAs when other classes have one, aren't the point of origin for most of their effects, and occupy two squares, one of which is far from them. As well, Con-shamans have higher hps, and ways to cover their retreat. Three of their at-wills are designed to protect the shaman from melee attacks. They operate on active defenses rather than a passive defensive score.

That said, you need to play smart. A smart opponent will -want- to take you out. A smart shaman has the tools to make that difficult.

 

[Mengu]

Investing in decent strength, dexterity, or intelligence would be wise for the shaman.

If you are a Con based Shaman, 13 Strength is not too difficult since you don't really need intelligence, and you can fetch chainmail for AC 16. This is the route I'd go for any race that doesn't get a Dex or Int bonus. For a race with a bonus to either one of these, I'd try to grab a 16 in either Dex or Int, but that could be spreading the stats too thin.

I would not want to play an AC 13 shaman, especially in a small size group. That is way too low, however smart you may play.

For instance, for a dwarf shaman, I'd probably go with something like 13/16/10/12/19/8 or 13/17/10/13/18/8, and start with chainmail. It doesn't slow you down and minimal skill check penalty.

For an elf shaman, I might go with 10/15/16/11/18/8, for a modest 15 AC.

 

[Malachi_rc]

The thing I note is that if the shaman has a low AC, so will the companion, which could end up causing a lot of damage to the shaman over time.

I guess it depends on how often they do more than 10+1/2 level.

 

[Cadfan]

I think the 13 you're likely to start with is doable. I don't think that its doable for the rest of your career, though.

Heavy armors improve by materials by about 6 over the course of your career. Light armors improve by 3, but let you add your dex or int, which is likely to also improve by 3 if you invest in it. So a total of 6 is gained as well.

The shaman isn't likely to invest in dex or int as he levels up, because he needs to invest in con. So he's losing out on three points of AC from advancing in level. If he takes chainmail, he not only gets the initial improvement from starting with an AC of 16 instead of the 13 he's likely to have, he also gets the additional improvement of leveling up better. By epic tier, chainmail may add as much as 5 or 6 to your AC. No matter how smart a player you might be, that's going to be too big to pass up.

 

[Obryn]

I was actually worried about this for Wrathful Invokers until I realized they get Chain proficiency...

Regardless, I do think it's unusual Shamans don't at least get Hide. Or that Con-based shamans don't get any kind of AC perk. It's not completely unprecedented - but they will have probably the lowest AC in the game at this point.

-O

 

[Mengu]

they will have probably the lowest AC in the game at this point.

Without proper investment, sorcerers can also end up with very low AC, and dragon sorcerers have a lot more close attack powers so they will want to be closer to the enemy than the shaman. They end up with fairly low hit points too, compared to the shaman.

But that's why we have feats, so one can decide which direction to go about increasing AC. I feel it's almost expected, that you will spend some feats on your defenses, and some on your offenses, depending on your role, party composition, etc. A Wild Sorcerer in a party of 6 with three defenders and two leaders may feel sufficiently protected to ignore armor and go for more damage. A Dragon Sorcerer in a party of 4 with 1 defender may feel he needs Leather armor and Toughness early on.

Didn't mean to switch to talking about sorcerers rather than shamans, but it's the same point.

 

[vhailor]

If you are a Con based Shaman, 13 Strength is not too difficult since you don't really need intelligence, and you can fetch chainmail for AC 16. This is the route I'd go for any race that doesn't get a Dex or Int bonus. For a race with a bonus to either one of these, I'd try to grab a 16 in either Dex or Int, but that could be spreading the stats too thin.

I would not want to play an AC 13 shaman, especially in a small size group. That is way too low, however smart you may play.

For instance, for a dwarf shaman, I'd probably go with something like 13/16/10/12/19/8 or 13/17/10/13/18/8, and start with chainmail. It doesn't slow you down and minimal skill check penalty.

I'm not sure, but I think that shamans can take cloth or leather, so how can you start with chainmail. Will you sacrifice two feats, so you can have AC 16 at 3rd level?

 

[Akaiku]

I'm not sure, but I think that shamans can take cloth or leather, so how can you start with chainmail. Will you sacrifice two feats, so you can have AC 16 at 3rd level?

Chain requires prof with leather or hide.

 

[Herschel]

What was the over/under on how long it would take for the "This class sucks because it doesn't have the AC of a Paladin/ HP of a Paladin/stickiness of a fighter/damage of a striker" threads to start?

The AC is low on the Shaman and the Sorcerer. They're not melee combatants. They want to team with defenders. They're SUPPOSED to be squishy spellcasters. Why does it seem too many want characters that do/have EVERYTHING?

The Shaman is way cool. (so is the Sorcerer, but I digress). Sure you have to play it carefully, but that's a bonus IMO. Casting Disintigrates in Plate Mail is a little odd in the D&D tradition. The appears to work well without the AC boost. Yes, they want defenders, and yes, the defenders have to be alert and cognicent of their job. I'd argue that's half the fun.