Shaman Healing Spirit + Feats question

[mysticknight232]

I'm playing a lvl 3 Shaman and we just lvl'd up to 4. While deciding on my next feat, it occurred to me that I may be playing the character wrong so I'm looking for help/clarification.

I'm playing a Bear/Protector build and the Protector Spirit class features says that an ally adjacent to my SC gains HPs = to my Con mod with second wind or your healing power. Does this mean that I add my Con mod to both targets of the Healing Spirit power so long as they are both adjacent to my SC or just the first ally I target to spend a healing surge assuming he's adjacent to my SC? We've been playing it where I add my Con mod to both targets and now I'm not sure based on some of the class feats available.

So next, my question involves the feats themselves. For example Vigorous Spirit feat says that when using healing spirit, the target regains HP = to my Wis mod. Again, does this mean both targets or just the first ally that spends the healing surge?

Thanks much for your help in clearing this matter up!

 

[Aulirophile]

Spirit Boon only applies to the target of healing powers in this case. So your ally has to be adjacent to the SC and be the primary target of Healing Spirit.

Vigorous Spirit is the same thing. Only applies to the target, not the secondary ally. Because the secondary ally is not in the Target: line of the power.

 

[Chris Knapp]

Spirit Boon only applies to the target of healing powers in this case. So your ally has to be adjacent to the SC and be the primary target of Healing Spirit.

I disagree. There is no "target" requirement in the spirit boon description.
"Any ally adjacent to your spirit companion regains additional hit points equal to your Constitution modifier when he or she uses second wind or when you use a healing power on him or her."
I personally believe that granting the additional 1d6 healing to the ally adjacent to your SC constitutes using a healing power on that ally, thus triggering the spirit boon.

Vigorous Spirit is the same thing. Only applies to the target, not the secondary ally. Because the secondary ally is not in the Target: line of the power.

Agreed. The description of Vigorous Spirit specifically states ". . .the target regains. . ." There is only 1 target of Healing Spirit.

In the end, healing is the Bear Shaman's schtick. An additional ~3HP at heroic isn't going to break the game. Bear companions encourage your defenders/strikers to stick close to it at the risk of being targeted by burst 1 attacks.

 

[chitzk0i]

Spirit Boon only applies to the target of healing powers in this case. So your ally has to be adjacent to the SC and be the primary target of Healing Spirit.

Vigorous Spirit is the same thing. Only applies to the target, not the secondary ally. Because the secondary ally is not in the Target: line of the power.

The spirit boon requires you to "use a healing power on an ally" to gain its benefit. My understanding is that this would even apply to Healing Spirit's secondary healing, but I could see a DM ruling otherwise. It turns out that like most unclear questions, CSRs have given contradictory responses.

On the other hand, Vigorous Spirit specifically applies to the target of your healing power, which is clearly defined by the rules, i.e. just the one that spends the healing surge.

 

[Aulirophile]

Healing Spirit is a Close Power. Close Powers are specifically "used on" their targets (actually each type, melee, range, close, and area says this exact bit). It is not used on things that are not targeted, by RAW. So.. the spirit boon doesn't trigger, as I said.

It isn't a matter of being game breaking. He asked what the rule was.

 

[the-golem]

I disagree. There is no "target" requirement in the spirit boon description.
"Any ally adjacent to your spirit companion regains additional hit points equal to your Constitution modifier when he or she uses second wind or when you use a healing power on him or her."
I personally believe that granting the additional 1d6 healing to the ally adjacent to your SC constitutes using a healing power on that ally, thus triggering the spirit boon.


Agreed. The description of Vigorous Spirit specifically states ". . .the target regains. . ." There is only 1 target of Healing Spirit.

In the end, healing is the Bear Shaman's schtick. An additional ~3HP at heroic isn't going to break the game. Bear companions encourage your defenders/strikers to stick close to it at the risk of being targeted by burst 1 attacks.

Well, the second ally isn't a "target" of Healing Spirit, so what Aulirophile says has merit. However, the second ally is affected by the Effect of that power. Since it's only one ally, you'd have to pick that person. It may not be RAW, but as far as I'm concerned, it works within the rules: "I cast Healing Spirit on Billy the Brave, and let Sally the Small use the other 1d6.

After all, the wording says "you use a healing power on him or her." Not, "and he or she is a target of a healing power." A Healing Power, by the way, is any power that has the Healing keyword. Not all healing powers have allies as primary targets, mind you.

Take for example, Hungry Spirit, which says: "Hit: 3d10 + Wisdom modifier damage. If this attack reduces the target to 0 hit points, an ally adjacent to your spirit companion regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier."

Sure, it's an attack power. It's also a healing power. IMHO, to use a healing power on a person, they just have to be the recipient of healing of some sort. In the case of Hungry Spirit, the Spirit Boon power should kick in also, as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Chris Knapp]

Close Powers are specifically "used on" their targets (actually each type, melee, range, close, and area says this exact bit).

Can I get a page reference please? I just spent a bit of time looking over the RC and I can't find anything like that. Closest I can find is the following: a close power targets specific individuals within the power's area of effect. Is that what you were talking about?

 

[pemerton]

Healing Spirit is a Close Power. Close Powers are specifically "used on" their targets (actually each type, melee, range, close, and area says this exact bit). It is not used on things that are not targeted, by RAW. So.. the spirit boon doesn't trigger, as I said.

It isn't a matter of being game breaking. He asked what the rule was.

Where is the authority, in the rules, for the proposition that a power is used only on its targets?

the wording says "you use a healing power on him or her." Not, "and he or she is a target of a healing power." A Healing Power, by the way, is any power that has the Healing keyword. Not all healing powers have allies as primary targets, mind you.

Take for example, Hungry Spirit, which says: "Hit: 3d10 + Wisdom modifier damage. If this attack reduces the target to 0 hit points, an ally adjacent to your spirit companion regains hit points equal to one-half your level + your Wisdom modifier."

Sure, it's an attack power. It's also a healing power. IMHO, to use a healing power on a person, they just have to be the recipient of healing of some sort. In the case of Hungry Spirit, the Spirit Boon power should kick in also, as far as I'm concerned.

And I suspect this is exactly why they used the wording that they did - of using the power on an ally rather than targetting the ally with a power.

There is a further question of whether or not its balanced, or otherwise fits with the intention of the Shaman class feature, to allow to PCs to receive the benefit of the boon at once. But arguing that the rules, as written, settle the question is in my view spurious.