Shane Hensley comments on the RPG industry

[mikey6990]

I'll throw my hat into the ring and agree with Chris Pramas. From all of the gaming stores that I have been to, his explanation of the market dynamic is correct. The stores are sellling more product due to d20/OGL releases, but the extra money put back into products goes into new d20/OGL products. RPG shelf life appears to be short, and new orders seem to be for either new d20/OGL stuff or extremely hot sellers from the last month that hung on. The non d20 sections of the store (with the exception of W40K which sells wells also) are shrinking. Evertime I go in I look through the rest and have seen the same books or less every time.

This appears to be such a small business that people only want to invest in what sells. During the early 90's, with TSR sales going down, the other guys were stocked to see if sales could be gained from other lines. Now, d20 is the 800lb gorilla and a sure sales bet, so why risk other lines of sale?

This situation does get to me also. I love GURPS, but that section of my FLGS just keeps shrinking, with noting new ordered. <sigh>

Mike

 

[Mistwell]

What's a 401K?

401K refers to a law in the United States that allows for tax-free investment of personal funds in various stocks and other kinds of investments to generate money specifically for the purpose of retirement. Most mid to large size corporations in the US have a 401K benefits program that lets their employees have part of their pay check go to this kind of retirement investment funds, and often the company will match a portion of the money going into the account each month.

Right now the stock market (and other related markets) are doing very poorly. In fact, most 401K accounts are losing money right now, rather than gaining money. So some people have stopped putting money into their 401K accounts. Also, you can pull money out of your 401K account, with some penalties.

Apparently Some people are quitting their jobs, pulling money out of their 401K accounts at a penalty (figuring they were losing money in those accounts anyway) and starting small gaming companies. It's gambling with your retirement, but hey, risk is the American way!

 

[ColonelHardisson]

Wow, I hope I've never made comments that make people think I don't like d20 or D&D.

Not that I'm aware of. Basically, I was trying to do a "process of elimination" on what Hensley said, since, of course, he wasn't naming names. I figured the guys who designed 3e/d20 wouldn't be unhappy with it (except tangentially, because WotC fired them); and I figured Hensley wouldn't be talking about new designers or people openly disdainful of d20 (John Wick, for example). You just ended up as one of the handful that leapt to mind for me.

 

[ColonelHardisson]

I've been thinking about companies like PEG, who seemed to get into d20 reluctantly. Matter of fact, PEG was probably the second established company - after Chaosium - which got into d20 in a very obviously reluctant way. To be frank, such companies might have been better off staying out of d20, because potential buyers of their products who catch wind to this reluctance may be put-off on buying their books. Those who don't catch wind beforehand may pick up one book, but get turned off to others in the line from the same company due to this air of reluctance. I simply don't trust a company to make the kind of effort necessary to ensure the highest quality of a product if they're doing it reluctantly.

My point is that a lot of the guys grumbling that d20 wasn't the cash cow they hoped it would be were doomed to failure before they ever published a single book, due to their attitude.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

My point is that a lot of the guys grumbling that d20 wasn't the cash cow they hoped it would be were doomed to failure before they ever published a single book, due to their attitude.

A good point indeed. I am reminded of the PR fiasco Guardians of Order made here on ENworld after SAS d20. They made it eminently clear that they did not understand the essence of d20 (hint: it's not just about using a d20 for task resolution), and that they had only released a d20 version most reluctantly.

Wulf

 

[Thorin Stoutfoot]

Ryan Dancey on PEG

Here's Ryan Dancey's comments on PEG's withdrawal from the d20 market ages ago:

http://www.gamingreport.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=72

Great thread entitled: "My d20 game doesn't sell." He doesn't name any names, but he was clearly talking about PEG.

As far as I'm concerned, good riddance to PEG from the d20 market. They weren't enthusiastic about d20, and it's better that they work on something that they are enthusiastic about. The same goes for the folks who did SAS d20.

I'd differ about Chaosium --- they have cash flow problems, which is why they are having trouble putting out products of any kind (d20 or otherwise), but they weren't unenthusiastic about d20 when I spoke with them.

 

[Sam Witt]

(Speaking of how hard it is to break into writing, Sam Witt has a remarkable amusing story about how he got his big break into TSR. Sam, tell the nice people the story if you have a chance. It's very cool.)

Ah, for the glory days of my youth, when the world was magical and anything was possible . . .

Cue harp strumming flashback sequence music

In the early, early 90s, I decided I really needed to stop just playing games and writing for my personal amusment, and do something, already. At the time, I was really digging a game called Nightlife, which was basically Vampire with lots more killin' and tons of different kinds of monsters. The emphasis was more splatterpunk than goth, and the book was teensy and easily digested.

So, I called the people at Stellar Games and said, "Hey, I want to write a post-apocalypse sourcebook for NightLife." And so it began.

Now, once I had a published credit under my belt, I became delusional. I called the TSR offices and asked to speak to someone in their creative department about possible freelance work. They patched me through to Bruce Heard.

I have a really important aside to make here - if you are considering doing anything in this industry, for the love of all that you find holy, do not do this. We have email now, it is fast and less invasive than a phone call. Use email. Do not call. Honestly.

The conversation went something like this:
Bruce Heard: Hello?

Me: This is Sam Witt. I'd really, really like to do some work for Dark Sun. I just finished a book for Stellar Games.

BH: Yeah? You have an opening in your schedule right now? I've got a Dark Sun adventure you can write for me.

Me: I WIN!

At this point, my head became so swollen that it actually eclipsed the sun in most of Central Washington State and the UN's peacekeeping forces were called out to protect the populace. When I was working at the gold mine, I would say, "Man, I'm a writer. I oughta quit this job." Which was true, but it was a GOLD MINE. You don't just quit a job like that.

Anyway, it wasn't until later that I discovered that my getting that Dark Sun gig was a result of a very fortuitous error in naming. Turns out there was another guy with a name very similar to my own AND a much longer list of credits. Fortunately, I didn't completely suck at writing for games, and everyone was well-pleased.

Cue strummy harp music

And, by the way, I'm a big fan of d20 and love writing for it. While I do plan on doing some non-d20 writing next year, just because, I don't have any plans on stopping with the d20 anytime soon.

So, that's my story. Whatever you do, do not attempt to emulate my antics. It is almost certain to end poorly for you.

 

[NLP]

Well... I wonder. there are those designers who have suffered because of d20, especially those who work primarily in other systems. Guys like Steven Long, Shane Hensley, and Steve Jackson come to mind, although even SJG is doing d20 stuff in limited numbers, with their Munchkin stuff. There *are* a lot of real good games out there (Little Fears, Godlike, Ironclaw, to name a few) that just don't get the exposure they might otherwise get, and that's frustrating.

I am not sure where you get your information about Steve Long and DOJ/Hero Games but neither Steve or his company have "suffered". Both Steve and Darren Watts (DOJ's President) have remarked how well their HERO System products have been received. Many of those products are in third or fourth printing now.

There is plenty of room in the market for non-d20 products and thanks to the internet it is fairly simple for people to locate that product and either order it online or get the information to give to their FLGS. Retailers and distributors cannot carry everything in the market, but if the fans show there is a demand for something both the retailers and distributors are happy to order it for you. It still comes down to money and the Retail/Distribution side of the food chain does not really care if that money comes from d20, HERO System, GURPS, or something else.

 

[Sulimo]

The variety and creativity of alot of d20 companies has really startled me (personally) and the quality of alot of offering are truly outstanding (if you have not picked up Nyambe or Monsternomicon I stongly recommend both - really top notch). But we got our first surprise way back when Relics and Rituals was released. I remember it being passed around in R&D and people shaking their heads partially in awe, partially in concern at the high quality of the work.

But overall the d2o and OGL licenses have been nothing but good and as a fanatic collector of d20 material it has made me very happy.

Funny you should mention that. Even for me, who only gets to play 3e occasionally, I'm getting quite a lot of products that I can cannibalise and use in our groups own games in other systems (primarily Rolemaster).

 

[Sulimo]

I think that because of the open nature of d20 that we will never truly see an end to products that suck. Even as those products are weeded out, new publishers will fill in the ranks. I do think that it will be harder and harder for products (and companies) that are both NEW and GOOD to stand out and get attention. Hopefully that's where sites like EN World can play an important role.

Yeah. This is especially true now that PDF only products are starting to sell. So even the entry costs of dealing with printers has evaporated.