D&D 5E Shield Attacks and AC Bonus

[epithet]

Except Crossbow Expert still requires you attack with a light weapon, which a shield still isn't.

Nuh uh. One-handed weapon, not light. Although I'll concede the point about the ammunition trait--I had to look at the errata, my PHB doesn't say you need a free hand.

 

[FrogReaver]

Except that Improvised Weapon rules are what are listed under the Weapon section of the PHB. It's pretty clear that Improvised Weapons are a subset of Weapons as per the PHB layout.

If that's the case then unarmed strikes would be considered weapons, but they aren't considered weapons even though they appear on the weapon chart

 

[S'mon]

The Two-Weapon Fighting fighting style would let you apply your stat bonus to your damage, and I think 1d6 bludgeoning would be the appropriate damage for a shield used in this way.

Why? That's the same damage as a shortsword, spear or scimitar!

 

[Blue]

If that's the case then unarmed strikes would be considered weapons, but they aren't considered weapons even though they appear on the weapon chart

You are 100% correct.

With the first printings of the PHB, Unarmed Strikes were on the weapon charts, and WERE considered weapons.

Then the errata came, and they are no longer.

In other words, this supports what I am saying.

 

[FrogReaver]

You are 100% correct.

With the first printings of the PHB, Unarmed Strikes were on the weapon charts, and WERE considered weapons.

Then the errata came, and they are no longer.

In other words, this supports what I am saying.

You are correct!

 

[epithet]

Why? That's the same damage as a shortsword, spear or scimitar!

Sure, it's also the smallest increment of falling damage.

A shortsword or a scimitar is a light finesse weapon, and a spear is a simple weapon that almost any character can use at level 1. As an improvised weapon, a shield lacks any weapon properties other than that damage die, and it will require a feat in order to really use it effectively. If you think about it, the shield is several pounds of metal and wood that has a broad surface you can really put your whole body weight behind as well as a narrow edge to focus the power of your strike on a particular point. It is a big, brute force bludgeon that requires a significant investment from the character to be proficient with, so I don't think 1d4 is adequate.

 

[FrogReaver]

Sure, it's also the smallest increment of falling damage.

A shortsword or a scimitar is a light finesse weapon, and a spear is a simple weapon that almost any character can use at level 1. As an improvised weapon, a shield lacks any weapon properties other than that damage die, and it will require a feat in order to really use it effectively. If you think about it, the shield is several pounds of metal and wood that has a broad surface you can really put your whole body weight behind as well as a narrow edge to focus the power of your strike on a particular point. It is a big, brute force bludgeon that requires a significant investment from the character to be proficient with, so I don't think 1d4 is adequate.

A shield resembles no weapon in the PHB, not a club or anything else. Improvised weapon rules state that improvised weapons get a d4 damage unless they resemble another weapon.

Curious if you just want a shield to have a bigger dice because balance or some other non-rule based reason OR if you really think it resembles any of the weapons in the PHB enough to inherit their damage dice by the rules?

 

[epithet]

A shield resembles no weapon in the PHB, not a club or anything else. Improvised weapon rules state that improvised weapons get a d4 damage unless they resemble another weapon.

Curious if you just want a shield to have a bigger dice because balance or some other non-rule based reason OR if you really think it resembles any of the weapons in the PHB enough to inherit their damage dice by the rules?

A club, mace, greatclub, or maul is, essentially, just a blunt heavy object that you can hit someone with. A club is the most basic, a weapon anyone can pick up and use. A mace has flanges to concentrate the kinetic energy into a smaller point of impact, requiring a little skill to use right. A shield isn't an intuitive weapon like a club, and it is bigger that a club or a mace, but not as big as a greatclub or a maul. The size of it should somewhat offset the fact that it doesn't extend as far from the wielder's hand to augment the inertia of a weapon swing. The edge, if used to strike with in a Gallic style of shield fighting, would serve to concentrate the kinetic energy like the flanges of a mace, and if you're just bashing someone with the flat surface I think the mass of the shield combined with the easy of putting your body weight into the strike should beat the basic club.

Just because the shield doesn't cosmetically resemble a specific item on the weapon table doesn't mean there aren't similarities and analogs. If your improvised weapon is just whatever comes to hand, like a beer mug or a dead raccoon, then just using a basic d4 is the right way to go. If your improvised weapon is a piece of fighting equipment designed to be used in combat, though perhaps not for the express purpose of whacking bad guys, then it is only reasonable to take a more considered approach. The fact is that shields have been used as weapons not infrequently, and have sometimes been actually designed to accommodate that purpose. When you have a character who is using a shield as a weapon on a regular basis as part of their standard attack routine, it's not really an improvised weapon any more, and you might be better off thinking of it as an "exotic" weapon, even though the 5e rules don't specifically accommodate them. A shield may be an "improvised weapon" under the rules, but it still a piece of military hardware designed to be used in combat.

The job of the DM is not to enforce the rules and keep the player characters in line, it is to accommodate the narrative and fantasy within the rules and direct the action accordingly.

 

[Seramus]

I would allow the AC bonus to stay.

A shield is still a giant slab of wood/metal between you and your enemy. Similarly, I allow my players to keep their armor bonus if they kick or shoulder check someone. They are still wearing their armor. At worst I might grant advantage to an enemy if the PC put themselves into an incredibly awkward position.

 

[Li Shenron]

Inevitably some smartass will then suggest that his character would equip two shields, using them as weapons and gaining a +4 to armor class.

How? "You can benefit from only one shield at a time." Basic shield rule, PHB p.144.