Shield bonus

[Shadow of Bukrai]

Seems to me that a shield bonus should be way more than +1. I'm thinking +4 or +5 for a normal shield. Probably overthinking that, though. I'd be inclined to start wondering if Dex bonus would even apply if you were using a shield. I mean, you use shields to block blows, not avoid them, so how is a higher Dex going to help you with that? I guess perhaps having a higher Dex helps you get the shield to where it needs to be to block the blow.

Anyone else think a shield bonus should be at least +4? Does anyone do something similar? That'd make for some interesting new tactics. A two handed weapon wouldn't be quite so attractive anymore, would it?

 

[IceBear]

ACs would be so high that low level battles would become very, very, very long and tedious.

IceBear

 

[dcollins]

Seems to me that a shield bonus should be way more than +1.

Sure, I'd allow +2 for a large shield.
Or anything up to full cover bonus for a tower shield.

 

[Asheron]

+5 (and +4 for that manner) is waaaaay too much of an AC bonus. I agree with IceBear; low lvl battles will cost waaaay too much time. And at high lvl, think of a shield +3 that would cost 9K and gives an AC bonus equal to a full plate armor......

I'm gonna stay with the +2 AC for a large steel shield.

Grz Ash

 

[Antikinesis]

It would also introduce bias against classes that don't use shields (wizard, monk, most rangers, etc.).

-AK

 

[Asheron]

rangers, ok that makes sense

 

[Jondor_Battlehammer]

I have toyed with the idea of making small shields +2 and large +3, but I would not go higher than that.

As far as DEX not counting, of course it does. You ATTEMPT to keep from getting hit, DEX, but you put the shield up to block the blows you cannot get away from, armor. If you try to jump back away from the swing of an opponent, but fail, does the shield all of a sudden not block it? Same for the armor you wear.

 

[Shadow of Bukrai]

Yeah, low lvl fights would take a good long while, wouldn't they? That's a good point. Thanks for the input.

 

[mmu1]

While the idea that an average man with a shield is only about 80% as likely to get hit as a man without one (I think that's about what it works out to for a typical human with 10 AC)is definitely incorrect... But trying to fix will probably screw up the system.

Personally, I have once toyed with the idea of giving bucklers a +1 bonus, small shields a +2 bonus, and large shields a +4 bonus, with appropriately increased armor check penalties, but I haven't been able to make up my mind as to whether that'd make for well balanced characters.

One one hand, at lower levels the loss of 2 points of AC does virtually nothing to offset the benefit of using a large two-handed weapon... On the other, at higher levels, and the availability of magical shields, it should... But from what I've seen of high-level combat, I'm not convinced that this is indeed the case, if only because of the way to hit bonus have a tendency to skyrocket, often making AC nearly irrelavant except in the case of the most heavily armored characters.

 

[Takeda]

Seems to me that a shield bonus should be way more than +1. I'm thinking +4 or +5 for a normal shield. Probably overthinking that, though. I'd be inclined to start wondering if Dex bonus would even apply if you were using a shield. I mean, you use shields to block blows, not avoid them, so how is a higher Dex going to help you with that? I guess perhaps having a higher Dex helps you get the shield to where it needs to be to block the blow.

Anyone else think a shield bonus should be at least +4? Does anyone do something similar? That'd make for some interesting new tactics. A two handed weapon wouldn't be quite so attractive anymore, would it?

Ah, a Harniac is in the house!

Well, I am a hardcore Harn Player, but I like some of the higher-fantasy elements of 3e D&D as well. So, in keeping with this we are playtesting a few things.

• Shields grant a Cover bonus, not an AC bonus (although an enhancement bonus can grant a 'true' AC bonus).
• Bucklers grant a +1 Cover Bonus to AC (but it must be declared who this is affective against, much like Dodge), which stacks with the dodge bonus granted by the Dodge feat.
• Small Shields grant a +2 Cover bonus to AC, and a +1 cover bonus to Reflex saves.
• Large Shields grant a +4 Cover bonus to AC, and a +2 cover bonus to Reflex Saves.
• Wall shields grant a +7 Cover bonus to AC, and a +3 cover bonus to Reflex Saves.
• If the attacker misses by the Base Cover bonus for the shield (based on size) the shield is struck and damage to the shield can result.

But! ... We have also gotten rid of the AC bonus provided by armour and given an equivelant DR/+1 (plus DR enhancement of armour); Level bonus to Defense (like Revised: Star Wars); every two points the targets AC (DC to hit target) is exceeded adds one to figured damage (not multiplied with a critical hit). ... But this is a work in progress, and we are playtesting as often as possible.

Update: Oh, I should add ... we have run into a bit of a snag as most monsters ended up with an abyssmally low ACs. Even if we gave a 16HD Giant the Defense Bonus of a 16th level Cleric we still had an AC of only 14 (after size and Dex penalties)! It has a DR of 11/+1 intrinsically, ... but that's all. And if it is fighting a character with a magical weapon (which would be Extremely Likely), they have AC 14 and no DR!

So, ... there are tweaks to be done.

I have given Giants d12 for HD already, ... and that seems to help. I have also added in Wounds and Vitality to make things more realistic, although still heroic.

If you remember Shane you sent me a Wounds & Vitality wrinkle before the Auran Harn site folded, ... I have added and tweaked it since then. I have just emailed you, ... let me know if you want what I have cobbled together on this subject. It is a work in progress however, ... so it's by no means finished just yet.

Takeda