Shilsen's Eberron SH (Finished - The Last Word : 9/20/15)

[carborundum]

Aaaaaaahhh!!!

What? What? What? What? What?

 

[Rackhir]

I think one on one we have a good chance, but we have to work fast, and as a team. Luna/Six can't hurt mual-tar so their job would be to heal. Korm/Gareth since those two can hurt mual-tar. Hell it would be slow, but if Korm/Luna healed Gareth (e.g. ready action, heal), Six buffed the group constantly, and since Nameless can't hurt mual-tar either so his job would be to constantly rebuff and maybe throw up distractions.

In our years of playing we don't seem to like to work as a team - everyone wants to do damage and not everyone can do damage all the time. If we treated this more like a WoW raid we would do so much better. Playing to our strengths has always been a weak spot with us. I remember quite a few times where Gareth was worthless in combat and had to stand aside for those who could do area damage spells - not as fun as wading into battle, but no biggy.

I'm so glad to hear you're volunteering to run the cleric we desperately need in the Kingmaker campaign.

Funny though, on those occasions I remember Gareth charging into melee with the blackscales and such. Not much healing of anyone else going on that I recall from Gareth.

I so wish I remember what happened here

This is down more to how Shil is describing things than any real mystery in what's happening.

 

[Furby076]

I'm so glad to hear you're volunteering to run the cleric we desperately need in the Kingmaker campaign.

Funny though, on those occasions I remember Gareth charging into melee with the blackscales and such. Not much healing of anyone else going on that I recall from Gareth.

Gareth is also a cleric, I decided to go a different route. Hence the wizard. I had six years of divine magic and sword power...rogue/wizard is definitely going the opposite route.

Nameless has had his fair share of charging in. So did Korm, so did Luna. The only person in the group who can pull a holier then thou argument is Six. I remember a number of times Gareth charged in after someone to offer them backup...the blackscales were another of Shil's specials.

 

[Furby076]

In preparation for the final battle I wanted to highlight Gareth's stat block after buffs:

Gareth Stats with buffs:
HP =263 || 226 normal, +20 Righteous Might, +17 Divine Power
Atk = 36 || 29 normal, +3 Divine Favor, +2 Divine Power, +2 Righteous Might
Initiative = +12 || 3 Normal, +4 Sign,+4 Imp Initiative
Dmg = 3d6+21 +1d6F+4d6H+1d6S+1d6C || 2d6+16 normal, +3 Divine Favor, +2 Righteous Might, Large 3d6
AC = 42 || 40 Normal, +3 Recitation, -1 Size Large
Saves
F39 || 34 Normal, +3 Recitation
R31 || 26 Normal, +3 Recitation
W38 || 33 Normal, +3 Recitation

Divine Might +8 Dmg
Smite +8/+40 || Normal +8/20, but these guys are evil so they can suck it


Mind Blank
Life's Grace
Stone Body
FOM
Divine Favor (Q)
Death Ward
Sheltered Vitality
Recitation
Divine Power
Fell the Greatest Foe (How many size categories from Large to Maul Tar? That's +1d6dmg per category)
Sign (Q)
Righteous Might

On a good note with smite Gareth only misses on a roll of a 1. On a bad note these guys only miss on a roll of a 1.
The nice thing about Stone body is that Nameless is memorizing Flesh to Stone which provides a way for him to heal gareth...in addition to those who can normally cast heal spells.

 

[Rackhir]

Gareth is also a cleric, I decided to go a different route. Hence the wizard. I had six years of divine magic and sword power...rogue/wizard is definitely going the opposite route.

What? You don't feel healing someone other than yourself would have been a sufficient change?

Nameless has had his fair share of charging in.

Such as?

So did Korm, so did Luna. The only person in the group who can pull a holier then thou argument is Six. I remember a number of times Gareth charged in after someone to offer them backup...the blackscales were another of Shil's specials.

I wasn't the one criticizing people for not doing something I was unwilling to do. Would things work better if we were a well organized tightly controlled group, yeah. But, that would be a completely different group.

Nobody has been stopping you from making suggestions during combat or trying to develop a plan of action.

 

[Furby076]

What? You don't feel healing someone other than yourself would have been a sufficient change?

Up until Gareth just got heal it wasn't worth it for him to heal anyone, including himself (hence why it rarely ever happened). Or would you prefer Gareth cast a cure critical instead of dishing out 150 dmg...being the one person in the group who can consistantly bypass most, if not all, DR.
BTW my new character, the wizard, uses a CLW wand to heal group members.

Such as?

Years ago, taking the stone, and charging into the light hoping it would take care of our first instance of the daelkyr lord. Kind of risky.

I wasn't the one criticizing people for not doing something I was unwilling to do. Would things work better if we were a well organized tightly controlled group, yeah. But, that would be a completely different group.

No, you never criticize anyone. As for working in a coordinated effort, I follow your commands plenty often. Be thankful Gareth moves ahead of nameless into a battle...the other way around wouldn't be so fun for Nameless.

Nobody has been stopping you from making suggestions during combat or trying to develop a plan of action.

I know you like to act as if you are the only one making such suggestions, but really you aren't.

 

[Rackhir]

Up until Gareth just got heal it wasn't worth it for him to heal anyone, including himself (hence why it rarely ever happened). Or would you prefer Gareth cast a cure critical instead of dishing out 150 dmg...being the one person in the group who can consistantly bypass most, if not all, DR.
BTW my new character, the wizard, uses a CLW wand to heal group members.

There was a very long time before ANYONE in the group had heal, Gareth wasn't doing much healing back then either. Even when he was nearly as good as Luna and Gareth wasn't that much worse than them given that Druids get most healing spells a level behind clerics.

When was the last time you reserved an action to counterspell or interrupt a casting? Those you certainly could have been doing and Gareth has just as good a caster level as most of the guys we go up against. Stopping some of those spells people have tossed as us, that hurt the ENTIRE GROUP would have been just as important as putting the hurt on a SINGLE target.

Years ago, taking the stone, and charging into the light hoping it would take care of our first instance of the daelkyr lord. Kind of risky.

That's called putting your ass on the line to achieve an important objective. We needed the shard to take him down and letting him get his hands on it, would have been... very, very, very bad. Though he was "just" a Daelkyr, not a Daelkyr Lord.

If you wanted a good example of Nameless doing something stupid like Gareth's done, I'd have brought up the time when Nameless kicked open the door and took on Erma and her friends when they attacked us in the Grey House, which lead directly to getting himself killed and unleashing Xoriat on Eberron, but hey that's just my opinion.

No, you never criticize anyone. As for working in a coordinated effort, I follow your commands plenty often. Be thankful Gareth moves ahead of nameless into a battle...the other way around wouldn't be so fun for Nameless.

I try not to criticize people for something I am unwilling to do. Your criticism about nobody wanting to do the dull healing and support functions is perfectly valid, but I don't recall you ever volunteering to do boring unexciting things instead of the flashy action stuff.

THAT'S what I find annoying. We've ALL always got an excuse or something else "really important" that we need to do during a round.

Tell you what, you let Nameless go ahead of you in battle and I'll let Gareth haul the group around from one side of the planet to the other, decipher bits of obscure arcane lore and you can even kill the next army we go up against. You know, one guy at a time, since Gareth has virtually no AOE capability.

I know you like to act as if you are the only one making such suggestions, but really you aren't.

I have invested a LOT more time in planning and trying to figure out what we might be facing than anyone else (other than Shil obviously) and you don't see a lot of what I do (not that it ever seems to do us any good mind you). But can you remind me what the last plan Korm, Luna or Six came up with was...? It seems to have slipped my mind.

You have actually made an effort to contribute to planning on occasion and I do give you credit for that, but Korm, Luna and Six's contributions in this area is virtually non-existent and if I don't put forth an effort in this area pretty much nobody else does. Despite my BEGGING the rest of the group to try and help out in this area on a number of occasions. As I've told Six on a couple of occasions "Don't just tell me I'm doing things wrong. Tell me what I OUGHT to be doing instead."

If YOU take the lead and set the example, then feel free to complain to your heart's content about how people are not working together and I will be right there cheering you on and happily taking instruction.

 

[Furby076]

There was a very long time before ANYONE in the group had heal, Gareth wasn't doing much healing back then either. Even when he was nearly as good as Luna.

Really? Nearly as good as Luna or Korm? Gareth's healing capabilities were never as good as the rest of the group. Maybe at level 2. Right now Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practiced spell caster to be 17. Back when the best healers in the group could do cure critical Gareth could not. And again the math was as simple then as it is now - Gareth doing damage and someone else healing made way more sense then the other way around since nobody in the group could come close to Gareth in terms of attack rate and damage rate. Even now the only person in the group who can come to out-damage Gareth is Nameless but that has only been in recent levels (as wizards become really powerful in that aspect at the highest levels). Gareth still has consistency and the ability to inflict consistent damage on all but flying targets.

When was the last time you reserved an action to counterspell or interrupt a casting? Those you certainly could have been doing and Gareth has just as good a caster level as most of the guys we go up against. Stopping some of those spells people have tossed as us, that hurt the ENTIRE GROUP would have been just as important as putting the hurt on a SINGLE target.

How do you think Gareth has as good a caster level as the enemies we fight? Gareth is a 14th level caster, with practice spell caster. At level 20 his DC is 10+4 (wisdom) + spell level...Which of Shil's creatures are going to fail that save? Gareth could run up to a spellcaster & hold his attack, but then the creature would take a 5 foot step & cast his spell. How would that help the group? As for counter spelling...again you want the guy with a caster level that is vastly smaller then the group to try and go against a spellcaster that is at the groups level or better?

That's called putting your ass on the line to achieve an important objective. We needed the shard to take him down and letting him get his hands on it, would have been... very, very, very bad. Though he was "just" a Daelkyr, not a Daelkyr Lord.

That's called taking a guess and wanting to showboat. Oh and it's not 'just a Daelkyr'....more like 'just a Shil Daelkyr' Gareth puts his butt on the line many times. BTW - before you mock Gareth for charging into battle remember three things 1) he is a melee character it's what they do, 2) he's held off plenty of times at your request, and 3) Grabthar, your melee guy, charged into battle instead of going to my wizard who was going to CLW him....then grabthar got dropped. Welcome to the world of melee - we have t-shirts made up "I run, I hit, I fall down"

I try not to criticize people for something I am unwilling to do. Your criticism about nobody wanting to do the dull healing and support functions is perfectly valid, but I don't recall you ever volunteering to do boring unexciting things instead of the flashy action stuff.

Each person has their own roles in the group. I don't think healing is dull/boring -but I agree it is not flashy. Being able to keep someone up is important. Then again I wouldn't expect Nameless to run up and smack someone with his dagger just because he can do it...that would be left to the melee group. I wouldn't expect Nameless to utilize UMD with a CLW wand...that would be better left to the best healers of the group. You would expect me to do something which Gareth is subpar at doing all in the name of "criticize people for something I am unwilling to do"? What's the point? We have specialists in the group and you are asking your specialists to do stuff other then what they are amazing at?

• Gareth = most consistent, and highest damaging character in the group. Gareth will only miss Aunty and Maul Tar on a roll of a 1.
• Nameless = highest damaging and second most consistently hitting character in the group (Gareths attack rate is better then Nameless DC)
• Korm = High damage dealer with poor hit rate, but the best healing in the group. He has poor AC, not that it will matter much in this battle.
• Luna = Damage sponge, with best healing in the group (and at range), and great damage spells. Only now with the elemental monolith can she start to deal great damage, but nowhere near the levels of Korm, Nameless or Gareth
• Six = most mobile, highest AC, and most versatile character in the group - but doesn't excel at damage and can't heal (sans UMD). Great at buffing, and unless it is a crazy creature/scenario his tripping is so very nice.

That's our group. You really want one of the two best damage dealers focusing on healing?

THAT'S what I find annoying. We've ALL always got an excuse or something else "really important" that we need to do during a round.

Gareth can do one thing really well...melee damage, followed by resisting spells/effects, followed by hopefully taking the hits and being able to stand to get a heal so he can do it again next round. When Gareth does 150 dmg in a round it gains a lot of attention - the enemies try and take Gareth down and fast. The group can let Gareth go down, and then they lose the biggest gun. There have been a number of times Gareth went down and you sighed somewhere along the lines of "we are dead".

Tell you what, you let Nameless go ahead of you in battle and I'll let Gareth haul the group around from one side of the planet to the other, decipher bits of obscure arcane lore and you can even kill the next army we go up against. You know, one guy at a time, since Gareth has virtually no AOE capability.

Exactly my point. Gareth is not a primary spellcaster...his spellcasting is good for buffing. I've had six years of practice with Gareth, and anytime I e-mailed Shil "what about this offensive spell" it was followed by Shil saying "stick to your melee, your DCs blow"...and he was right. I wanted to use the fun spells but don't because Gareth sucks at them. Gareth now has Holy Word...which would you prefer Gareth do this weekend. Holy word with his DC 21 save against aunty/maul tar, or would you prefer Gareth swing the Endless Blade? I'll let you make that call.

Gareth can do other things - he can cast damaging spells - and he does it poorly. He can, only recently, cast heal - but not as good as Luna/Korms. Plus if he heals the group loses out on massive damage output and Shil's monsters typically do more damage then Gareth can Heal. Gareth can also use planar travel spells, but the cleric version is terrible compared to greater teleport. As before, each character has their focus - Gareth's is not to heal. That's like me complaining that your Barbarian doesn't use UMD and CLW wand to heal the new campaign group.

I have invested a LOT more time in planning and trying to figure out what we might be facing than anyone else and you don't see a lot of what I do (not that it ever seems to do us any good mind you). But can you remind me what the last plan Korm, Luna or Six came up with was...? It seems to have slipped my mind.

I never said you don't plan, but you sure don't do it alone. Six comes up with lots of plans but we typically shy away from them because they are very defensive. Luna comes up with insane plans that even the forces of Xoriat have a brain fart over. Korm doesn't believe in plans - he just likes to swing at things. My goal is for us to have a plan for this final battle instead of just charging in. You have great ideas, so do I...wouldn't it be nice if we coordinated those ideas beforehand so both of us get to try them out? Instead of a last minute bark...also, instead of hoping someone might heal a group member have someone designated for when that need arises? Nobody wants to be down and out in any battle, especially the climax of this fun campaign.

Anyhow at some point we should take this private or stop because we are starting to scare the children.

 

[shilsen]

Anyhow at some point we should take this private or stop because we are starting to scare the children.

Yup! I'd appreciate it if both of you took any arguing you have to do to email.

 

[Rackhir]

So Shil, WAS there some way we could conceivably have stopped Mual-Tar from destroying the flame?

We did have the final session of the campaign this weekend and let's just say everyone proved to be very, very, true to their nature.