D&D 5E Short rests -- how often in a day?

[FormerlyHemlock]

This strikes me as an enormous fallacy. "Plans cannot be perfect, thus plans should never ever be used in even the smallest degree." The perfect is the enemy of the good; just because it is impossible to plan for every possible detail does not mean that plans are worthless. Plans can and should be made, as long as they are flexible.

I think you might enjoy this quote:

I tell this story to illustrate the truth of the statement I heard long ago in the Army: Plans are worthless, but planning is everything. There is a very great distinction because when you are planning for an emergency you must start with this one thing: the very definition of "emergency" is that it is unexpected, therefore it is not going to happen the way you are planning.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I think you might enjoy this quote:

Aye, I've read it and appreciate its point. To put it another way, [MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]--if plans are worthless because plans always fail, why do we bother doing things like evacuation drills and emergency exit planning?

The answer, of course, is that doing so demonstrably saves lives. The emergency plan will never be executed precisely as written, because every emergency is wholly unique. But the act of preparing for it, of planning for it, produces tangible improvement in results. Of course, there's a much lower impetus for planning in an RPG because RPGs don't put real lives on the line (unless you're Jack Chick ), but planning still produces useful effects even if the plans themselves always, 100%, without fail, go pear-shaped.

 

[KarinsDad]

Aye, I've read it and appreciate its point. To put it another way, [MENTION=2011]KarinsDad[/MENTION]--if plans are worthless because plans always fail, why do we bother doing things like evacuation drills and emergency exit planning?

Emergency exit planning is not the same as a DM planning for a specific set of encounters handled in a specific order with a specific set of short rests at specific times in between.

As a DM, I never ever plan ahead of time which encounters occur on what day, in what order, and where short rests occur in between. Ever. There are encounters that must be done in a certain order if the scenario calls for that (i.e. room B is between room A and room C and there is sometimes no way to get to room C without going through room B), but I not only do not plan for when short rests will occur, I also really do not care as the DM. That is part of player decisions, not DM decisions at my table.

This does not mean that the NPCs just freeze in time during a PC short rest. Time still ticks forward in the campaign world. It just means that I as DM do not make that decision, nor do I plan for it.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

Emergency exit planning is not the same as a DM planning for a specific set of encounters handled in a specific order with a specific set of short rests at specific times in between.

As a DM, I never ever plan ahead of time which encounters occur on what day, in what order, and where short rests occur in between. Ever. There are encounters that must be done in a certain order if the scenario calls for that (i.e. room B is between room A and room C and there is sometimes no way to get to room C without going through room B), but I not only do not plan for when short rests will occur, I also really do not care as the DM. That is part of player decisions, not DM decisions at my table.

This does not mean that the NPCs just freeze in time during a PC short rest. Time still ticks forward in the campaign world. It just means that I as DM do not make that decision, nor do I plan for it.

The fact remains that that is a perfect example of a situation where plans are guaranteed to never succeed as written/determined, yet planning is considered essential. Your point was:

The first casualty of any war is the plan, including the DM's plan to have x encounters per day (and specifically, these specific x encounters per day). By definition, the players are going to mess up the DM's plan, so there is no real need for him to plan how many encounters. Just prepare the adventure with the encounters and as the players get to them, they get to them.

Emphasis added. You specifically said that because the plan is going to get messed up, there's no need to plan. I was disputing the logic of that point. There are a huge variety of real-world situations (economic, political, military, safety...) where plans are guaranteed to "fail," but planning is considered essential, indespensible. Thus, logically, it is not appropriate to say that planning is worthless simply because "the first casualty of any war is the plan." Planning for the resources your players are probably going to spend--and when and where they could try to recoup them--is a worthwhile endeavor, and can even open new avenues of challenge. For example, in 4e you could force players to go through more than one combat without resting now and then, to remind them that even Encounter powers are not 100% reliable. In 5e, things are a bit harder because Hit Dice are variable (and can thus shaft a player who rolls poorly) and not everyone benefits the same amount (Wizards get a huge boost for 1 rest per day; Clerics and Paladins get a small but decent boost; Warlocks and Fighters get a large one; Rogues don't get a damn thing other than HD), but it's still worth considering whether the situation you provide will (in theory) press the PCs to the ragged edge or give them enough leeway to face every challenge at full strength.

 

[KarinsDad]

Emphasis added. You specifically said that because the plan is going to get messed up, there's no need to plan. I was disputing the logic of that point. There are a huge variety of real-world situations (economic, political, military, safety...) where plans are guaranteed to "fail," but planning is considered essential, indespensible. Thus, logically, it is not appropriate to say that planning is worthless simply because "the first casualty of any war is the plan." Planning for the resources your players are probably going to spend--and when and where they could try to recoup them--is a worthwhile endeavor, and can even open new avenues of challenge. For example, in 4e you could force players to go through more than one combat without resting now and then, to remind them that even Encounter powers are not 100% reliable. In 5e, things are a bit harder because Hit Dice are variable (and can thus shaft a player who rolls poorly) and not everyone benefits the same amount (Wizards get a huge boost for 1 rest per day; Clerics and Paladins get a small but decent boost; Warlocks and Fighters get a large one; Rogues don't get a damn thing other than HD), but it's still worth considering whether the situation you provide will (in theory) press the PCs to the ragged edge or give them enough leeway to face every challenge at full strength.

The only thing that I said was not necessary to plan was the number of encounters in a given day. The rest of this, you are adding on your own. The DM does not need to worry about this stuff. It's ok to have 1 or 2 or 15 encounters in a given day. The players will decide when they think they are too low on resources. No need for the DM to figure this out ahead of time because quite frankly, he could easily be mistaken (hot rolls or cold rolls, or good decisions or bad decisions could easily change the outcome).

You seem to think it important to drill down into these (unnecessary) details for your game. Fine. Do so for your game. That doesn't make your way the only way. It just makes it the only way for your table.

 

[iserith]

Without reading all the other responses and only responding to OP:

My problem so far hasn't been with short rests, but with travel. During travel where there might be one encounter per day. If I make the encounter a normal encounter, the players plow through it. If I make it really difficult, they are worried about blowing through their 'daily' powers. I like 5th way more than 4th, but painting a horse with white stripes doesn't make it a zebra. There are still daily, encounter and at will powers. 5th didn't fix the issue of short encounter day. However, I do think this edition is much more balanced and easier to work with. I'm a little (extremely) tired so I hope this makes sense.

Consider that the single encounter during travel isn't really about resource management anyway. It's about something else entirely. Perhaps it's just establishing context about the character of the land or foreshadowing future threats. It might be something that slows the characters down, if they're trying to get to their destination before a certain time. Or it might just be an action scene inserted to get everyone engaged after a lull in the tempo.