Short Rests?

[DEP]

So we had a argument tonight at the game table about Short Rests. In combat, myself and another player were the only people standing with 3 others in the negatives. We finished off the rest of the baddies and we said we were going to rest. One player who was at -3 said he was going to Healing Surge because we were out of combat and taking a short rest. I said you couldn't do that as you can't use a healing surge if you are in the negatives. He said there was nothing like that because we were in a short rest.
So the question I ask is if you are in the negatives and stable can you use a healing surge if the people who are conscious are taking a short rest?
It makes no sense to me since you are dying and you are just like 'oh I am going to heal now since there is no combat'.
Thanks for the help!

 

[thecasualoblivion]

So we had a argument tonight at the game table about Short Rests. In combat, myself and another player were the only people standing with 3 others in the negatives. We finished off the rest of the baddies and we said we were going to rest. One player who was at -3 said he was going to Healing Surge because we were out of combat and taking a short rest. I said you couldn't do that as you can't use a healing surge if you are in the negatives. He said there was nothing like that because we were in a short rest.
So the question I ask is if you are in the negatives and stable can you use a healing surge if the people who are conscious are taking a short rest?
It makes no sense to me since you are dying and you are just like 'oh I am going to heal now since there is no combat'.
Thanks for the help!

Yes, you can. Using healing surges in a short rest is not an action, so you can do it. Unconscious means you can't take actions.

 

[Nebten]

There is a round about way of doing it, but it gets to the same point as long as there is another player up. The stabilized dying player can't do it, but another player can use a Heal check to perform a Second Wind. This in turn spends a healing surge and boom, they are up. Since the DC is 10, this is pretty much an automatic call (unless they have negative in Heal, yoinks!)

But to answer your question directly, no.

 

[DEP]

Thanks for the quick response. Doesn't really make sense realistically to me. I mean if I am bleeding on the ground and all of the sudden combat starts I can just heal up. Makes no sense, but I guess that is the rule

 

[the8bitdeity]

Yes, you can. Using healing surges in a short rest is not an action, so you can do it. Unconscious means you can't take actions.

Correct.

Think of being in the negatives as being analogous to when a professional wrestler is hit over the head by a chair. He's lying on the ground kicking and shaking his head, but can't do anything in the corresponding melee. Occasionally, perhaps through external help, he can get up and act (gets to spend a surge for some reason in combat). After the combat that he regains his senses and stumbles off to fight another day.

 

[fanboy2000]

This should be in the rules fourm. But that's easy to fix.

Here's the deal: when you're at negative hit points, you're unconscious. Unconscious characters can't take actions. So far, so good.

However, the rules also say that, after a short rest, you can spend as many healing surges as you like outside of combat. (PHBI, pg 293).

So, the questions are: is spending a healing surge an action by itself?

In combat, spending an healing surge is always part of another action. But out of combat, actions aren't as rigidly defined.

All that said, here's how I would rule: an unconscious character can't spend healing surges even after a short rest. It makes sense that spending a healing surge would be an action, even after a short rest. Also, the unconscious status condition was written so that the results were as common sense as possible (giving that this is an RPG.)

Note: You can't technically spend healing surges freely until after the short rest, which means death saving throws until someone heals the you.

 

[Asmor]

Thanks for the quick response. Doesn't really make sense realistically to me. I mean if I am bleeding on the ground and all of the sudden combat starts I can just heal up. Makes no sense, but I guess that is the rule

You're thinking about it wrong.

Hit points don't measure health. Healing surges do. If they've got healing surges left, they're still in pretty good shape. If they're in the negatives, then that just means they got knocked around a bit and were out of it... but after a few minutes of catching their breath they can regain their composure.

 

[wedgeski]

All that said, here's how I would rule: an unconscious character can't spend healing surges even after a short rest. It makes sense that spending a healing surge would be an action, even after a short rest. Also, the unconscious status condition was written so that the results were as common sense as possible (giving that this is an RPG.)

I don't stop counting rounds (therefore the encounter isn't over, therefore there are no short rests for you!) until a dying character is either stabilized, or has shuffled off the mortal/semi-mortal coil.

I'm not 100% sure this is in sync with the rules, but it's how we've played since day 1.

 

[CapnZapp]

I don't stop counting rounds (therefore the encounter isn't over, therefore there are no short rests for you!) until a dying character is either stabilized, or has shuffled off the mortal/semi-mortal coil.

This.

 

[FireLance]

Thanks for the quick response. Doesn't really make sense realistically to me. I mean if I am bleeding on the ground and all of the sudden combat starts I can just heal up. Makes no sense, but I guess that is the rule

You don't get up because combat starts. You get up because you've had five minutes of rest. Similarly, you don't get your encounter abilities back at the start of the next encounter; you get them back after five minutes of rest. Unless the DM times the start of the next encounter for exactly five minutes after the end of the previous one, you will complete a short rest (and regain encounter abilities, spend healing surges to get back hit points, etc.) before the start of the next encounter.