Should I play a Binder?

[atomn]

Hi everybody! I'm going to be playing in a new game with a brand new party of second level characters. I've been leaning heavily towards playing a Binder because I think that's the niftiest class out there and I've never gotten the chance to give them a shot. The rest of the party consists of a paladin, fighter, ranger, cleric and wizard/bard. For anyone who's played a Binder or seen one at work, how well would a Binder fit into the group? Do you think it's a good class choice or does it run the risk of being overshadowed by the rest of the group? Thanks for the insight!!

 

[Kunimatyu]

You'll be a good character to have -- not more powerful than any of the other guys, but you'll be able to support almost any of them in the right situation. The downside is that there will rarely be any one thing you shine at, but you'll rarely be useless.

Make sure to take the Expel Vestige and Rapid Pact Making feats (I think that's what it's called) so that you can change your focus easily.

 

[atomn]

You'll be a good character to have -- not more powerful than any of the other guys, but you'll be able to support almost any of them in the right situation. The downside is that there will rarely be any one thing you shine at, but you'll rarely be useless.

Make sure to take the Expel Vestige and Rapid Pact Making feats (I think that's what it's called) so that you can change your focus easily.

Cool, thanks for the reply! Since many of the Binder bonus feats are geared toward armor proficiencies and a good deal of the vestiges seem like they’re geared towards combat, I was worried that a Binder would be redundant because of all of the front line tank characters in the party.

I was thinking of playing a human and was thinking taking Expel Vestige. But instead of Rapid Pact Making I was thinking of the one that gives you access to Vestiges as if you were two levels higher than you actually are. Or is Rapid Pact Making more essential right off of the bat?

 

[cwhs01]

Perhaps a little overwhelming, but this thread on wotc's boards gives a pretty thorough breakdown of the pactbinder. It has a good list reviewing vestige abilities, grouping them by level or by type of abilities. It also discusses feats (and pretty much everything else pertaining to binders).

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=784085

 

[Henry]

A straight single-classed binder by himself is not a very strong character - you're like a slightly less useful version of a bard, in my opinion. (I played one from 7th to 11th level, and then switched to a cleric, both because the party really needed one, and because I was not very good at any role EXCEPT healing, as a binder.) They're very flavorful, but if the party is one full of very optimized characters, you might feel out of place. In my experience, they would be slightly better served by gaining their class abilities about two or three levels quicker than what they do now. I can't stress enough the advice about rapid pact making and expel vestige - and maybe a vestige phylactery if you can find a way to acquire one.

 

[hong]

Is it a 2, 3 or 4-ring binder?

[/rimshot]

 

[shilsen]

Is it a 2, 3 or 4-ring binder?

[/rimshot]

Binder? I don't even know 'er!

More seriously, from what I've seen of the binder (haven't played one, but been in a game with one from 3rd to, currently, 8th lvl), I think it's a great class. For the right player. If you're looking for a really powerful class and a character who will always shine in a fight, then it's a bad fit. But if you want a really versatile class that will be useful and provide support in most situations, then go for it. Not to mention being one of the most amazingly flavorful classes that WotC has ever put out.

 

[Henry]

But if you want a really versatile class that will be useful and provide support in most situations, then go for it. Not to mention being one of the most amazingly flavorful classes that WotC has ever put out.

Only problem with the "support" aspect is that most of the default vestiges really only help you, rather than someone else, and even then the most powerful only help you about once per combat (assuming most combats lasts about 5 or 6 rounds, if they last longer then you are more useful).

They heal like crazy in downtime -- but only hit points, and only after 5th to 7th level. They can fight - but don't have the cleric's buffs to keep standing for very long, and don't have the fighter's oomph to pack punches. They can pull some neat tricks, like limited teleports, mind reading, lightning bolts, etc. but they tricks are very limited, to balance the fact that you can pull them off a couple times a minute or so. They were one of WotC' first experiments in "per encounter" balancing, and they I.M.O. didn't quite hit the mark.

The flavor? FANTASTIC. License to go nuts, dramatically. (My group could tell easily when I had bound Dantalion, or Buer, or Geryon, and accused my character of having a M.P.D., which I considered a compliment. )

 

[atomn]

Thanks for all of the replies, Everyone! My GM is unfamiliar with Binders but if he'll let me play one, I'm going for it! Like Shilsen and Henry said, the flavor is incredible and it is so enwraping to me that I know I'd rather find out that in practice I didn't like the class than always wish I tried them out.

 

[Henry]

...I'm going for it! Like Shilsen and Henry said, the flavor is incredible and it is so enwrapping to me that I know I'd rather find out that in practice I didn't like the class than always wish I tried them out.

hey, that's why I wound up playing one! Good luck, and let us know how it goes!