D&D 5E Should Next have been something completely new and made from scratch?

[ForeverSlayer]

One of the promises of Next (whether you believe it or not) is the mixing of elements from different editions to create a ruleset you want to play. No single edition can do that right now.

But that's the whole problem. It's mixing elements I don't like from an edition I don't like so I don't really want to play it any more.

I don't like nuts and mixing them into my ice cream isn't going to make me suddenly like them.

 

[fjw70]

There is more to D&D than just the mechanics. There is the cosmology, the creatures, the various worlds such as Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk.

Why play a game that contains elements of 4th edition when you could just buy 4th edition and play it? Why do you need to purchase a game that brings you the feel of 2nd edition when you could just go and buy 2nd edition?

What if I don't want ALL of 4e or ALL of 2e? What if I like things about BX, AD&D, 3e, and 4e? 4e isn't a single thing. Every edition is a collection of things. 5e will allow us to pick and choose among things from each edition.

 

[lutecius]

Would it have been better if D&D Next was a completely new game that the designers created from scratch?

It COULD have been better but more likely it would have been worse. The further you deviate from what the current fanbase plays (any edition), the greater the risk of missing the mark.
As other have said, this is sort of what 4e tried and look what happened. Many hated it because it changed too much and others (like me) hated it because it didn't go the direction they wanted (I was hoping for less gamism, not more).
And Pathfinder didn't end up selling more than 4e because it was a whole new game. It's because it was more similar to previous editions.
I may not entirely like the result either this time but trying to find a common ground and go modular is a much safer bet for WotC.

And frankly I don't like damage on a miss and wouldn't want too many mechanics like this in the game... but it wouldn't be that hard to remove it and come up with another option, even if the designers didn't do it themselves (but I think they'll do now... That's the point of playtesting an voicing your opinion).

 

[Morrus]

It COULD have been better but more likely it would have been worse. The further you deviate from what the current fanbase plays (any edition), the greater the risk of missing the mark.
As other have said, this is sort of what 4e tried and look what happened. Many hated it because it changed too much and others (like me) hated it because it didn't go the direction they wanted (I was hoping for less gamism, not more).
And Pathfinder didn't end up selling more than 4e because it was a whole new game. It's because it was more similar to previous editions.
I may not entirely like the result either this time but trying to find a common ground and go modular is a much safer bet for WotC.

And frankly I don't like damage on a miss and wouldn't want too many mechanics like this in the game... but it wouldn't be that hard to remove it and come up with another option, even if the designers didn't do it themselves (but I think they'll do now... That's the point of playtesting an voicing your opinion).

We all get that you don't like it; never fear!

I don't see how you not liking DDN translates to "it would have been better for WotC to have designed an entirely different game to D&D" though.

 

[fjw70]

But that's the whole problem. It's mixing elements I don't like from an edition I don't like so I don't really want to play it any more.

I don't like nuts and mixing them into my ice cream isn't going to make me suddenly like them.

It remains to be seen how much of the 4e cooties that DDN will have. But if it has too many for you then you can obviously choose not to play it.

But going back to your original post how would it be better from WotC to do something completely different when nothing sells as well as D&D. The only thing that can compete with D&D is D&D under a different name (i.e. Pathfinder).

 

[ccooke]

But that's the whole problem. It's mixing elements I don't like from an edition I don't like so I don't really want to play it any more.

I don't like nuts and mixing them into my ice cream isn't going to make me suddenly like them.

So don't play it.

5e is going to be released, and we'll find out then if it's going to be a success. For me personally, it's probably going to be my favourite edition for a whole load of reasons. But there's a ton of great games out there that already play like D&D. Many of them are D&D, even.

5e will not and can never please everybody. It appears to be pleasing a lot of people at this point, but there will always be some people who don't like something about it. It seems that you don't like anything about it, up to and including the entire premise of it being a new edition of D&D. So why invest your time in it? There are so many great games on the market right now.

If it turns out that WotC have completely misjudged things and the edition tanks completely, you'll be entirely justified to say you told them so. If that doesn't happen, it'll be released looking a lot like it does now and you'll still hate it. So why stress about it?

 

[Henry]

The point lutecius makes about Pathfinder shouldnt be taken too lightly -- it took advantage not only of the company employees' pedigrees in D&D, but also the network externalities of a majority (or at least plurality) of the existing D&D player base, and stuck to what that base wanted -- the customers that WotC accidentally excluded when they tried to get away from the OGL. Then, the license worked exactly as intended, and the owners of D&D were supplanted as sellers of the most popular RPG in the market.

However, don't forget that this also traps Paizo, as well -- if they don't want to be supplanted themselves, they cant make too many radical changes to PF for the same reason -- a majority of the player base has to want the change or they're not moving.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

It remains to be seen how much of the 4e cooties that DDN will have. But if it has too many for you then you can obviously choose not to play it.

But going back to your original post how would it be better from WotC to do something completely different when nothing sells as well as D&D. The only thing that can compete with D&D is D&D under a different name (i.e. Pathfinder).

All RPGs are in competition with each other in one form or another. We have Pathfinder, 13th Age, Hackmaster, Rolemaster, and a few others that a lot of people are playing. D&D doesn't have as much of a hold on the industry as it once did and I don't see this edition helping them either.

 

[ForeverSlayer]

So don't play it.

5e is going to be released, and we'll find out then if it's going to be a success. For me personally, it's probably going to be my favourite edition for a whole load of reasons. But there's a ton of great games out there that already play like D&D. Many of them are D&D, even.

5e will not and can never please everybody. It appears to be pleasing a lot of people at this point, but there will always be some people who don't like something about it. It seems that you don't like anything about it, up to and including the entire premise of it being a new edition of D&D. So why invest your time in it? There are so many great games on the market right now.

If it turns out that WotC have completely misjudged things and the edition tanks completely, you'll be entirely justified to say you told them so. If that doesn't happen, it'll be released looking a lot like it does now and you'll still hate it. So why stress about it?

Well for one thing, it's still in the beta stage so hopefully enough people will get across to the designers to have the game contain that modularity it promised.

Second, I don't want to dislike two editions in a row.

 

[fjw70]

All RPGs are in competition with each other in one form or another. We have Pathfinder, 13th Age, Hackmaster, Rolemaster, and a few others that a lot of people are playing. D&D doesn't have as much of a hold on the industry as it once did and I don't see this edition helping them either.

D&D and it's close derivatives still dominate the market. Fate is a very popular indie game but it won't get anywhere near DDN numbers whether DDN succeeds or fails.