D&D 5E Should player's assume if it's in the DMG then it's RAW?

[Li Shenron]

Basically, should people just stay away from the DMG if they aren't DMing?

I had a player come to me about selling a magic item. He automatically assumed that all he needed to do was make his Investigation roll and then roll for days to find a seller and BAM, his item is sold. I explained to him that's not how it works in my world. "Well the DMG says XYZ", was the response I got and I told him he shouldn't assume anything he reads in the DMG is automatically RAW.

What do you think?

The closest thing to a default in 5e is Basic, certainly not anymore PHB+DMG+MM.

Even then, I'd say definitely not everything in Basic is required.

What you should do, is make sure to tell your players what is the default of your games. Everything else doesn't exist. The DMG in particular is explicitly a collection of variant rules and modules.

 

[seebs]

3ed/d20 gave min/maxers, powergamers and whiners ammo to question the DM at every step if he didn't do something per "RAW". How's that?

No more true in 3e/d20 than in any other D&D, so far as I can tell.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

How is it being unfair? His role was that of the player and not the DM so the book he should be using is the PHB and the book I use is the DMG. Just because you may DM doesn't automatically mean you are to use the rules from the DMG when you are a player. I think the DMG contains rules but doesn't contain "the" rules for playing the game.

You are being unfair by a signing malice intent and taking an adversarial role. Just explain "I don't like those rules so instead I ..."

The player did nothing wrong you however seem to want to blame him for something

 

[Li Shenron]

Ask yourself, why should a player assume that a rule which is not marked as optional would not be used in a game?

Because the whole DMG is officially optional. All you need is Basic.

But that said, if they marked something in the DMG as "optional" then this was really a stupid thing to do! There is possibly nothing in the DMG that is really required to play.

 

[Jester David]

"If you need every DM to run the game exactly the same, 5e is probably the wrong game for you. 5e is focuses on giving DMs the tools and flexibility to run the game they want."

http://www.reddit.com/r/rpg/comments/2l69tp/ama_mike_mearls_codesigner_of_dd_5_head_of_dd_rd/cls6ksa

 

[baradtgnome]

I blame 3ed/d20 for this problem. Everything - classes, monsters, NPCs, etc. - all followed the same rules. It empowered players to reverse engineer everything but in the process, DMs lost control of being able to surprise their players. 5E: take the power back!

I never felt this way. Maybe because I was brought up as a DM in 1E I was comfortable enough to use the rules as needed to keep the game where I wanted it. I can see your view point on how you might have felt that way about 3E/d20. However I never let the game control me. Sure the players can ask questions, challenge rulings, etc - they ask, I respond. No problem. Again about setting expectations. I always set the expectation that the DM tries to be fair, consistant & has the priveledge/responsibility to manage the rules/game as necessary.

I won't argue that 5E is more explicit to the players that this is the DMs job. Good stuff.

 

[GMforPowergamers]

The funny part is I felt much freer to house r rule 3.5 then any other edition

 

[Warskull]

Basically, should people just stay away from the DMG if they aren't DMing?

I had a player come to me about selling a magic item. He automatically assumed that all he needed to do was make his Investigation roll and then roll for days to find a seller and BAM, his item is sold. I explained to him that's not how it works in my world. "Well the DMG says XYZ", was the response I got and I told him he shouldn't assume anything he reads in the DMG is automatically RAW.

What do you think?

It sounds like you stonewalled him. The player wanted to sell a magical item, it is a reasonable request. He was asking what he had to do and assumed the rules from the DMG were being used. In absence of any other option, that is a reasonable assumption. You told him it didn't work that way, but they you didn't tell him how it does work.

You should have helped him towards the way it did work in your campaign. You houserules how the selling of magical items works, that's fine. What is missing from your story is telling any of your players how it works.

Imagine a DM who houseruled how you roll for health on level up, yet he fails to tell any players about the house rule. It would seem a bit unreasonable, wouldn't it? Part of the role of the DM is guiding your players, he wants to sell an item, you should help him sell that item.

 

[TerraDave]

I am about half way through the thread, and cannot really believe a lot of the responses.

Of course this case and others from the DMG are at the DM discretion, and there is a difference between the DMG and PHB. Downtime activities are in the PHB. Additional downtime activities that are at the discretion of the DM are in the DMG. Everything in that book is like that, and labeled as such.

I guess I will be in the one person here that actually looks at the book (tomorow), but I am sure, as there is about 1000 places in it, language saying something about "normally you can't sell items" "or if you (the DM) want to allow items to be sold" or something like that. As there is over, and over, and over again.

I can confirm, from the PHB, that "selling magic items is problematic...(most) items are out of the realm but the wealthiest nobles". That should be the end of the discussion as per the Rules As Written.

 

[Jeff Carlsen]

I generally consider the DMG and the MM to be off limits to players by default. I don't really want them reading them unless they intend to run a game. But, it's not like that's enforceable.

This DMG is pretty much entirely a toolkit. I don't consider anything in there to be part of the core rules of the game. Not even the poisons or traps. They're tools for the DM to use. He or she isn't even obligated to explain exactly how they work. When the player wants to do something, ask for rolls and apply results.

Selling magic items is doubly optional. That's very explicitly stated in the DMG. It's okay to be frank with your players and let them know that you don't intend to use the guidelines for selling magic items. But, it's up to you to provide the world. If your player wants to sell a magic item, it's up to you to present that opportunity or lack thereof to the player.