Should Spot checks include looking up?

[TheEvil]

The thread about looting got me to thinking about what should be considered automatic. Some time back, we were playing World's Largest Dungeon.

*SPOILER ALERT*

The entire first section is loaded with fiendish darkmantles dropping on the party. Not once did the GM allow a Spot check to notice them on the ceiling unless the party members specifically said they were looking up. I found this to be kind of ridiculous, for a couple reaons:

1. Spot is to notice things you are not specifically looking for. If you are looking at the ceiling and there is no concealment issues, you will automatically see it.

2. A high spot skill represents a person who pays attention to their surroundings. If that isn't the case, what does a high spot skill mean? A laser-like focus when he bothers to use it?

 

[Nifft]

IMHO:
1/ There is no directional facing in D&D; and
2/ "up" is a direction; and
3/ requiring "I look up" (and the like) in every room yields an obnoxious play style that requires a law degree to describe a normal, mundane action sequence of an experienced adventurer.

Thus, Spot check includes looking up.

-- N

 

[Aeric]

It makes sense not to think of looking up in an inside/underground setting as something that one would do naturally, but that's because in the Real World, we don't have eighty different kinds of nasties that fly, crawl, or just plain live on the ceiling waiting to drop down on unsuspecting adventurers. Not to mention ethereal/incorporeal nasties that can come at you from any direction, or just plain old traps like a precariously-perched stone block or giant swinging scythe blade.

If I was in a dungeon, you can bet I would be looking up, down, left, right, every which way but loose!

 

[Dracorat]

(SE) DMG, (page 32 in SE)

Sometimes a player will say, "I look around the room. Do I see anything?" and sometimes she'll say "I look in to the room knowing that I just saw a kobold dart inside. I look behind the chair and the table and in all the dark corners. Do I see it?" In both cases the DM replies, "Make a Spot check." However, In the second example, the character has specialized knowledge of the situation. She's asking specific questions. In such cases, always award the character a +2 bonus for favorable conditions. It's good to reward a character who has knowledge that allows her to ask specific questions.
If the kobold is not actually in the room, but a cloaker waits in ambush on the ceiling, the character has no special knowledge and gains no bonus. She doesn't get a penalty either - don't penalize specific questions. If both the kobold and the cloaker are in the room, two Spot checks are required (unless the monsters are working as a group which is highly unlikely). The character gets a +2 bonus on the check to spot the kobold and no bonus on the check to spot the cloaker.

Hope this helps.

 

[InVinoVeritas]

We have peripheral vision for a reason. Spot automatically includes looking up.

Alternately, here's a little experiment:

1. Sneak up behind the GM.
2. Pour a glass of water on him from above.

If he catches you, note that he wasn't specifically looking up, and that neither should your characters be expected to note the same.

If he doesn't catch you... the result is still satisfying.

 

[Vanuslux]

I've done a little cave exploring and my eyes were always drawn to the ceiling, so I've always considered looking up to be included in a standard spot check.

 

[Asmo]

Absolutely - I granted the rogue a spot check - and he was completely shocked to see the Spiked Iron Sphere coming through the chute just above his head before it put him in a deep coma

Asmo

 

[Sigg]

Absolutely, for all the reasons already stated.

 

[shilsen]

We have peripheral vision for a reason. Spot automatically includes looking up.

Alternately, here's a little experiment:

1. Sneak up behind the GM.
2. Pour a glass of water on him from above.

If he catches you, note that he wasn't specifically looking up, and that neither should your characters be expected to note the same.

If he doesn't catch you... the result is still satisfying.

InVinoVeritas for the win!

 

[Chimera]

Unlike the movies, where you can hide on an 8' ceiling and have someone walk directly underneath you without noticing, we humans have much better peripheral vision than that.

Oh heck, you don't even need peripheral vision to see them when you're 10' away.

I'd have severe problems with a GM who said that I didn't notice monsters on the ceiling unless I specifically stated that I was looking up. That's Adversarial.