D&D 5E Should the Fighter's "Second Wind" ability grant temporary HP instead of regular HP?

[The Crimson Binome]

Well I was discussing in a thread recently (maybe with @Saelorn - I can't remember), and it was suggested that 8 hp is 8 hp whether it is the first or last hit taken.

The key feature of hp as meat, as I see it, is that healing must correlate to physical recovery, because the "meat" depletion is not the sort of thing that can be ignored with a strong will and a good friend telling you to buck up. (See eg @Tovec just a bit upthread.)

Huh? What am I doing in this thread?

Oh right, that's a pretty good summary of my position. I can't speak for how common that view actually is, but it makes the most sense to me that an 8hp hit against that one ogre is the same as any other 8hp hit against that same ogre. Things might get more complicated when you try to compare it to an 8hp hit against a harpy, or a level 10 halfling, or a level 1 halfling, but the same damage represents the same wound-severity against the same target (is the most consistent way for me to see it).

What you describe as the "key feature" of hp as meat seems fairly accurate to me - every lost hit point includes some non-trivial physical component, which cannot be fully recovered without physical healing of the damage.

 

[Lanefan]

Ok, but, with Barbarian, Ranger, and Paladin all having tricks that allow extra survivability what would you give a fighter that stacks up to Lay on hands, Cure spells, and Rages? Maybe some kind of DR in armor?

In order:

Barbarian isn't a class in my game, it's a race; and has nothing to do with the 3e version. They may or may not get healing based on whatever class they might be.

Rangers in my game get herb use (herbs being uncommon to find and a consumable resource) and some of those can heal; they also get spell use at higher levels - so yes, they get some healing.

Paladins get lay-on-hands once a day for a fixed amount of curing; so while technically they can heal it's a triviality in play.

Monks can get some self-healing at higher levels but they can't heal anyone else.

Cavaliers (which I have) don't get healing at all. Nor do Thieves and Assassins, nor do any of the Wizard types, nor Bards. And nor should Fighters.

Lan-"I mistyped Barbarian as Barbarina and may thus have just named my next character"-efan

 

[GMforPowergamers]

In order:

Barbarian isn't a class in my game, it's a race; and has nothing to do with the 3e version. They may or may not get healing based on whatever class they might be.

Rangers in my game get herb use (herbs being uncommon to find and a consumable resource) and some of those can heal; they also get spell use at higher levels - so yes, they get some healing.

Paladins get lay-on-hands once a day for a fixed amount of curing; so while technically they can heal it's a triviality in play.

Monks can get some self-healing at higher levels but they can't heal anyone else.

Cavaliers (which I have) don't get healing at all. Nor do Thieves and Assassins, nor do any of the Wizard types, nor Bards. And nor should Fighters.

Lan-"I mistyped Barbarian as Barbarina and may thus have just named my next character"-efan

1st that is going to be a fun character for sure

2nd that sounds more likely a slightly house ruled 2e then anything else


So when does your game start playtesting?

 

[Nebulous]

it is now one on one and the goblin is dumb enough to like those odds, and he hits...he does max damage...7...then the fighter kills him. the fighter got hit 7 times normally and 1 crit in about 20 seconds... these are steel swords breaching his armor and not being dodge...

The fighter walks away and has no penalty... he is equally able to run for miles or lift heavy rocks, or swing his sword... after 8 hits by a sword, one of witch is a critical hit.

Now someone who is a real dislike of second wind healing... please tell me the narrative in a simiulationist way for the encounter without any healing at all...

All you have to do is say that the hits are not cutting through flesh and bone. Look at the Lord of the Rings movies. Aragorn, Legolas and Gimili fight HUNDREDS of orcs for hours on end with minimal cuts and bruises? In D&D terms i would think they have a huge stack of hit points that let them wade into combat, cutting down enemies but the narrow misses still whittle down their reserves.

But I think the bottom line is that D&D is not, never was and never will be a simulation of real combat. In any sense of real life, being bit by a dragon, hit by an ogre's maul or gored by a minotaur would kill you immediately, no matter what armor you're wearing.

 

[Lanefan]

1st that is going to be a fun character for sure

2nd that sounds more likely a slightly house ruled 2e then anything else


So when does your game start playtesting?

It's actually heavily-houseruled 1e, and has been playtesting (as in, we've been playing and refining it as we go) since about 1980; a few years before I got involved.

Some of the details are online, see my .sig for link then click "Commons Room" once there, and look around.

Lanefan

 

[BryonD]

But I think the bottom line is that D&D is not, never was and never will be a simulation of real combat. In any sense of real life, being bit by a dragon, hit by an ogre's maul or gored by a minotaur would kill you immediately, no matter what armor you're wearing.

Agreed.

I don't want to suggest that I spend my time playing actually thinking about it in the depth I present here. But if I really think it through I would AGREE that a 10 HP hit is a 10 HP hit. It may come from a variety of sources with a variety of descriptions. But it is a blow that would one shot kill a cliche farmer. The thing that changes is the target's ability to convert that wound into something far less fatal. If a PC got caught in a time loop trap and a single attack by an ogre was exactly repeated 5 times, killing him on the last blow, then that LAST blow is what the FIRST blow should have done if not for abstract heroics.

But it is no fun to me if nothing can ever grind the PC down either. I want that narrative feel of the hero being carted off in an ambulance (or whatever) at the end of the episode. He may be ridiculously well healed when the opening credits roll next week. But all that cumulative damage was there needing healing. It didn't do anything to stop him from taking out the bad guy. But it was there. I like that.

 

[Umbran]

Sigh, I miss all the good stuff. Shame there's no infraction forum.

Yeah, funny thing, that. Note how neither of these accusers reported the posts? So, they are publicly making accusations without a whole lot of support - and if they're right, the mods are apt to miss it. If they are wrong, they're insulting someone who isn't guilty.

Either way, it probably doesn't achieve the results they were hoping for.

Folks, if you have a problem with another poster, Report The Post, and don't engage. If you start a fight this way, we'll nail you for it too, and will have no sympathy for your whining that it is unfair, since you didn't yourself follow the board rules.

Understood? Good. If not, please e-mail a moderator to discuss. Thanks for your time.

 

[RotGrub]

Interesting! Could you post a link to it or the write up? This is not intended to be argumentative; honestly interested in reviewing it.
Thanks!

Here is the link

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/sarcasm