Should Zero Level be part of the regular rules?

[trancejeremy]

Some people like playing 0th level characters in level based games, characters that are essentially either normal people or with some minor training (like an apprentice wizard that can cast a 0th level spell). But should they be part of the core rules, or in an optional section?

 

[Jan van Leyden]

I voted for "optional". My problem is the "believability gap" between a 0-level, run-of-the-mill human (or whatever) and an adventurer ready to battle evil.

What about the archetypical wizard, who has undergone a years-long apprenticeship? Shouldn't he be level 0 before he enters this apprenticeship?

 

[delericho]

An optional part of the rules. As you say, there are some people who like that stuff, and plenty who don't. So, don't include it as standard, but offer it as an option for those who want it.

(Of course, that assumes an infinite budget, of both time and money. In reality, they won't ever be able to present all the desirable options, so will need to set priorities. In which case, I fear this will be quite a low priority.)

 

[tuxgeo]

I voted Optional. For 5E Next, I don't greatly care whether it's included in the Basic (unlikely), Standard (possible), or Advanced (likely) packages of rules, but I think it should be in there. My own preference would be that they should include it as an option in the Standard game.

I actually enjoy creating 0th-level characters in D&D 4E (using Chatty DM's article in Dragon), so I hope they can develop a form of that material that will fit somewhere in 5E. If they can't get it done in time for simultaneous release of Basic and Standard, I would still like to see it come out in Dragon (again).

 

[Morrus]

It depends what you mean by 0-level. I've seen different interpretations over the years.

If you mean (and your example of a wizard with just a cantrip suggests this) a class level that's within the class but weaker than Level 1 - then really you're just asking "Should level 1 be much weaker?" Whether you call that first level 0, 1, X or Orange is immaterial.

If you mean that the class has not yet been chosen, and that the player chooses a class upon progressing to 1st level - sure, it could be an option, I guess. Why not? I wouldn't want that as default, but it could be fun to do occasionally in the right campaign.

 

[tuxgeo]

It depends what you mean by 0-level. I've seen different interpretations over the years.

If you mean (and your example of a wizard with just a cantrip suggests this) a class level that's within the class but weaker than Level 1 - then really you're just asking "Should level 1 be much weaker?" Whether you call that first level 0, 1, X or Orange is immaterial.

If you mean that the class has not yet been chosen, and that the player chooses a class upon progressing to 1st level - sure, it could be an option, I guess. Why not? I wouldn't want that as default, but it could be fun to do occasionally in the right campaign.

As we know, not choosing a class until 1st level is the way 4E goes. I think it's fun to generate bit-part characters that way while keeping them markedly weaker than actual PCs. There are no Commoner or Expert classes in 4E, so this serves as a fall-back substitute for those classes in their absence.

 

[Ahnehnois]

Absolutely. Some form of apprentice levels for characters who are not yet adventurers should be there.

However, the default starting point for a character should probably not be that low.

 

[Orius]

I could live without it. I prefer 3e's approach of 1st level commoners to the old system of hordes of 0-level NPCs everywhere. But it's no big deal.

 

[Holy Bovine]

Don't want it, never needed it. I liked the NPC classes from 3E best myself and felt they modeled 'apprentice' levels quite fine with higher leveled NPCs just being regular people who level only as they age and get better at their vocations.

Yes I even used a 15th level Commoner.

 

[Psyga315]

It could be interesting, but it needs to be executed right. It sounds great on paper, but it's the execution that has to sell it. Personally, I think that it could be good for if you wish to take up an extra class, and then after a few battles, that class is leveled up to 1.