Shuriken vs. Hand Crossbow: What's the Point of Shuriken?

[Ryujin]

Style.

Yup. Can't make a "Ninja" without shuriken

 

[Brys]

Daggers are better than Shuriken for the most part (exception is when the enemy is 6, 11, or 12 squares away). Everyone agrees there.

In Hand Xbow vs Shuriken, a magical Shuriken can be thrown and returns to the hand. You only ever need one. No need to track ammo (lots of people ignore counting bolts). Hand Crossbow, even if it loads as a free action, technically you still need your other hand empty to load it. So, once you fire it, you would have to put away any weapon in your other hand, load the crossbow, pull out the other weapon again. You can take a feat (Two-Fisted Shooter) to get around this, but it does cost a feat. No such limitation with the Shuriken.
Summary of differences:
Shuriken: +3 prof, no ammo, no load actions, 6/12 range
Hand XBow: +2 prof, needs ammo, free hand needed to load, 10/20 range

 

[thalmin]

... except when a power can be used at range, and there is some benefit from a feat or power specifically for using a light blade

Actually, Shuriken is a light blade.

 

[Destil]

Yeah, that crossbow was always an issue. It started strong and just got better and better. I would still say though that the HCB wasn't made obsolete by it. The Load Free and one-handed nature of the HCB always made it a good flexible option. Even without any of the one-handed reloading tricks at least it gave you a shot at someone using better than 5 range before everyone closed. While certainly inferior as a sniping weapon to the SCB it was still usable, so if you're mainly a melee rogue it has been a good balanced option. With the CS and added stuff in MP2 though SCBs have gotten a bit extreme, so I'm glad it got nerfed back.

As far as I can tell (don't have essentials in dead tree form yet, but from errata and the Compendium) superior crossbow is dead in the water as far as rogues since essentials. Standard crossbow, too. And of course rogues don't really get much mileage out of the shortbow since most rogue powers don't let you use one...

Sneak Attack
Page 117: The feature now lets you deal extra damage once per turn instead of once per round. When you make an attack with a light blade, a hand crossbow, a shortbow, or a sling and hit an enemy granting combat advantage to you, that enemy takes extra damage based on your level. You can deal this extra damage only once per turn.

 

[DMZ2112]

First thing I did after getting my hands on the D&D4 PHB was house rule out the shuriken and extend the rogue shuriken bonus to daggers.

For the most part, the D&D4 weapon list was pretty solid, but there were some very odd choices made.

 

[Dragon Sin-Camealot]

My Invoker can use a hand crossbow and not a shuriken. There's the availability factor.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

As far as I can tell (don't have essentials in dead tree form yet, but from errata and the Compendium) superior crossbow is dead in the water as far as rogues since essentials. Standard crossbow, too. And of course rogues don't really get much mileage out of the shortbow since most rogue powers don't let you use one...

Yup, it is NOW. Good thing too. Definitely makes the HCB once again a pretty attractive choice for snipers. DS was right though, slings are now also pretty attractive. I think the basic tradeoff at this point is the HCB is pretty easy to get one handed reloading with. I don't know of an easy way to do that with the sling.

 

[Ryujin]

Actually, Shuriken is a light blade.

Sorry, misread your post. For some reason I had it stuck in my head that you were saying weight was the only reason.

 

[thalmin]

First thing I did after getting my hands on the D&D4 PHB was house rule out the shuriken and extend the rogue shuriken bonus to daggers.

For the most part, the D&D4 weapon list was pretty solid, but there were some very odd choices made.

I had an image problem with shuriken as well, until I realized there was no throwing knife listed. A throwing knife is a shuriken with only one point.

 

[Plane Sailing]

I had an image problem with shuriken as well, until I realized there was no throwing knife listed. A throwing knife is a shuriken with only one point.

Isn't a dagger a throwing knife? That's why its got a range