Siangham real!

[DreadPirateMurphy]

I checked with my wife, who is fluent in Korean.

"Geom" basically means sword. Looking online, I came across various references to "in-geom," or tiger swords.

Here is a link to the Macao Museum of Art:

KOREAN SECTION SWORDS LIST

The "sa-in-geom" was a short, straight-bladed sword granted by the king to a royal guard or general. In D&D terms, I would call it a masterwork short sword.

This is the closest to the D&D weapon for any real weapon that I've seen, in terms of pronounciation and anglic spelling. It's possible that there was confusion about the fact that "sa-in-geom" were only forged at specific times and given to specific users, and so it was seen as a "special" weapon.

It's also possible that the similarity is just coincidental, and the name derives from a language other than Korean.

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

Here is a picture from a Korean exhibit that matches the hangul that Huw posted:

http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v...ords 2008/?action=view&current=Picture051.jpg

This, in my mind, shows that this is the weapon referred to by the hangul, even if it isn't the inspiration for the quasi-mythical Oriental Adventures weapon.

 

[DreadPirateMurphy]

The emei ci, aka emei dagger or emei piercer, DOES seem to be a real "weapon," in the sense that it is referenced repeatedly as part of the sport style of Wushu. Here is vid of somebody twirling them:

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PPr50_yHmM0]YouTube - Spinning Spikes[/ame]

Wushu is not a combat art, per se, and while the emei ci may be inspired by older Chinese forms of dagger, it looks more like something intended for flashy display than practical use. I have been unable to find any Web pics of archaic forms or museum pieces.

 

[pawsplay]

The funny thing is, I can see a siangham being a potentially useful weapon, but not being great for a flurry of blows.

 

[Huw]

Possible lead on the sang-kauw:

Ji (halberd) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Okay, that's a polearm - but it is the right shape. I've read that often the heads of these polearms are found after the shaft has rotted away. Maybe the "sang-kauw" is just a badly interpreted archaeological find?

 

[Celebrim]

The Lajatang is plenty real. Obscure, but real.

Weapons and fighting arts of Indonesia - Google Book Search

While that's a far more believable origin than any thus far suggested, I'm not really convinced. The only illustration in the sample from the book is a drawing that looks suspiciously RPGish, and there is no other mention in the sample. There are no pictures of the actual weapon, nor have I ever seen one. Again, the illustration just doesn't look wieldable, as there is no way to make use of the weapon as a lever without striking yourself, and no apparant way to thrust with it either. And it is the only non-RPG related reference I can find on the net. Oh sure, there are a couple of others, but if you go there and read the text they are quoting word for word from the 1e OA.

On the other hand, the link you sent has a 'sang kwau' in it which looks very different from the AD&D version, and while its plenty exotic looking, at least looks like it is wieldable and does ring a bell in my head like I've actually seen one of these before. Notably, the 'sang kwau' from the book you link is not a double weapon, nor is it a thrusting weapon.

 

[pawsplay]

While that's a far more believable origin than any thus far suggested, I'm not really convinced. The only illustration in the sample from the book is a drawing that looks suspiciously RPGish, and there is no other mention in the sample.

It's also identified in GURPS Martial Arts as an Indonesian weapon. I'll put that up against any but the most expert non-fiction sources you can find.

 

[TKDB]

Pardon the thread necromancy, but seeing as this seems to be a recurring question (I found no fewer than three threads on this board alone, each several years apart from the others, through a general google search for the weapon to try to figure out details about its use for some homebrew stuff I'm working on), I figured I'd toss in my two cents:

While I can't vouch for the name "siangham", I do know that the weapon itself as depicted in the PHB is basically identical to the rochin used in Okinawan martial arts. Granted, the rochin is always used in conjunction with a small round/oblong shield called a tinbe, but the weapon itself is the same.
This site describes the style, but unfortunately doesn't have any good images of the rochin; however, simply plugging the term into Google images illustrates the point quite nicely.

So, while the weapon may or may not have ever been called a "siangham" before D&D, it definitely does exist and is used in real-world martial arts.

 

[Janx]

Inconclusive, but interesting. Thanks. The jutte is a nice weapon. It's a close relation of the sai and is the basis of modern police batons.

If we're going to reopen the siangham investigation, maybe start by finding out what language it is. It's certainly not Japanese or Mandarin. Looks vaguely Thai to me - anyone know Thai weaponry?

um. huh?

I trained with Sais and Tonfa for my IshenRyu black belt (a japanese style, founded on weapon techniques involving farm tools turned weapons). Though the origin stories for Sais and Tonfa seems to be muddled.

However, I do know what they look like. A sais is NOT the ancestor of the police baton. The Tonfa holds that honor.

Here's Rafael with a Sais:

The Tonfa is akin to a police baton (not used by any Turtles to my knowledge):

A Jutte has elements of a Sais and Escrima, not quite a Tonfa or police baton:

A police baton looks like:

 

[Klaus]

I'd replace the siagham with the kunai, which is a better-documented weapon with similar construction and use.

Kunai - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia