"Siloing" Class Abilities

[Glyfair]

I posted this in my blog thread, but it hasn't been getting a lot of attention now, and this is really a cool look at the 4E, IMO.

David Noonan's last post:

Silos: After two class meetings yesterday, I discover that I'm still smitten with the way we're "siloing" PC capabilities now. For example, it was always unfortunate how phantom steed had to compete with fireball on a wizard's "Spells Prepared" list. Don't get me wrong: Both spells are great, and they both have their place. But when all eyes at the table turn to you, it's a lot better to say, "I didn't prep phantom steed, but I've still got fireball," rather than "I didn't prep fireball, but I've still got phantom steed." Phantom steed suffers by comparison, despite its coolness, and thus it's relegated to scroll use and the occasional splash from a high-level wizard.

Not so in 4e. We've devised various ways of grouping like capabilities with like capabilities, so you don't have to sacrifice phantom steed's utility for fireball's killin'-the-bad-guys effectiveness. You'll get both. And one of the clever bits in D&D--figuring out combat uses for utility spells and vice versa--remains.

In some ways, it's like having a major and a minor in college. And 4e characters are looking a lot more well-rounded than their 3e counterparts.

 

[Malcor Sylverwood]

Is that implying that you can prepare utility spells and then convert them into perhaps a variety of basic attack magics?

 

[pawsplay]

It sounds like they've invented Multipowers (Hero System).

 

[Wormwood]

It sounds like they've invented Multipowers (Hero System).

It also sounds like I want to play a Wizard again.

 

[WhatGravitas]

It sounds like they've invented Multipowers (Hero System).

Care to explain? Never came near Hero.

Cheers, LT.

 

[Crazy Jerome]

It sounds like they've invented Multipowers (Hero System).

Wouldn't need to go that far. All they have to do is change the Vancian stuff to use the "Readied spells" idea from Arcana Evolved. Then the caster readies fireball and phantom steed that morning. If he needs either, he burns a slot, and goes.

Lord Tirian,

that would be similar to Hero Multipower, in that it was a way for a character to buy a power as "either/or" at any given moment (or half and half, if you payed extra). That is, strategically, you have both options, but you still need to choose between them at the moment.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Just so long as I can still play an illusionist -- which is a lot more important to me than wizard strikes and fireballs, as much as I understand the importance and utility of each -- it's all good.

 

[shurai]

Care to explain? Never came near Hero.

Cheers, LT.

I dunno about Hero, but it reminds me of Power Arrays in Mutants and Masterminds (d20 point-based supers). They work like this:

1) Select a pile of theoretically related Powers (say, zap enemies with 'lectricity, charge oneself with 'lectricity so nobody can touch the person without being zapped, and use 'lectricity to make a lightsaber-like zappy sword to wave around).
2) Figure out which one costs the most (say, ranged zap-bolt)
3) Pay for that one's full cost (say, 10 Power Points)
4) The other two can join the "array of electricity powers" for a cost of 1 Point each, that is, they're really inexpensive because they probably would've cost 6 or 8 if purchased separately.

So, the three Powers were cheaper than if purchased separately. They can't be activated all at once, though -- only one can be activated at a time. So, if the Zappy Sword is out, then the Zappy Armor can't be on, nor can Zack Zap things. Thematically, it's "I can use electricity to do things, but not more than one major thing at a time, because my Superhero Awesomeness isn't sufficient for that."

 

[jasin]

Wouldn't need to go that far. All they have to do is change the Vancian stuff to use the "Readied spells" idea from Arcana Evolved. Then the caster readies fireball and phantom steed that morning. If he needs either, he burns a slot, and goes.

Does that work in AU/E?

It seems to me that a wizard with two readied spells and X slots will still just ready fireball and haste rather than phantom steed and fireball.

It sounds to me like they're doing something that offers the wizards a choice between fireball and haste; and a choice between phantom steed and tongues, so that no matter what combination you pick, you have one utility spell and one combat spell.

Sounds fiddly, but if done well, I'll love it.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Sounds kinda like they are going from:

"What do I pick, Fireball or Phantom Steed? This is a tough decision, I hope I make the right one. I'll prepare..."

to

"Screw it, Wizards can do anything they want now"

Not sure how I feel about that... On the one hand, it is an interesting dynamic not knowing what spells you'll need for that day, and finding out you should have prepared X instead of Y. Or finding out you prepared exactly the spell you needed for the job. So that level of excitement will be removed.

On the other hand, you won't feel screwed that you picked the wrong spells, because whatever spell you need will be available to you. No need to 'think' I guess...