Simple yet vital question

[Maikl]

I'm reminded of the movie Armageddon

Loved this example

occasional help is fine but makes a lame story

That's why it bothered me so much.

The campaign (part of it) is over now and the world is saved (at least for some time). However, weakening the guild a bit is a good idea for the future.
I can't destroy it completely, as I talked with my players and they know I know that some in-game balance was disturbed. It just would have been hm... primitive to simply destroy the guild now, as it's existance caused some troubles .

 

[Piratecat]

Take this and turn it on its ear. Who gets credit for the win? Do the paladins get all the glory, relegating the PCs to barely a mention? Or do the paladins for some reason champion the vital importance of the PCs in ending the plot, thus turning them into bait for the other bad guys? Either one of these can lead to fun adventures.

 

[Cyberhawk]

One thing you may want to consider is that the while the PCs are low-level they're nobodies. They can go "under the radar" so to speak to find out information the big guys can't handle. This is especially good if you have competing political entities in your world..Kingdom A might be a little miffed if Kingdom B sends its Paladins over the border. This would be especially true if Kingdom A and B had a war not too long ago.

Also while the big demon army is the big super threat there are plenty of little things that are going on the PCs should be able to handle. Cultists trying to corrupt a small village...monster taking advantage of the Paladins going off to fight the demons..etc. Not only do you have the PCs handling things, they're gaining levels/magic but they also keep appraised of your major campaign arc.

And last remember that the big NPCs are famous. The bad guys are going to have plans for them. This could be a great way to build excitement in your mid-campaign. "hey guys, guess what? While you were away a group of dragons came in and toasted the high church. Uber-NPC A is dead. So is B. And C." All of a sudden the PCs are very important people. And hopefully at this point they have enough power of they're own that they can handle the responsibility.

 

[howandwhy99]

Why should the PCs handle some problems, if there are others who can take care of it.My players reasoning seems logical. Why should they save the world, if there are lots of people, more skilled and experienced who can and should take care of it.

Quick FYI, the PCs are the heroes not because they have superpowers, have ability scores far above the norm, or are the epitome of human/demihumankind. They are heroes because they actually choose to take heroic action. Just as in the real world, heroes are not the ones could have stepped in and made a difference, but the ones who actually did.

Risking one's life to make the world a better place is a fundamentally heroic action. My advice is: don't make this choice on your behalf of your players. Let them choose when and where their PCs are courageous. Just put enough need for heroes in the world and they'll soon be faced with such choices.

If they ignore them, that's also their choice. But others are not going to step up and play hero just because the PCs won't. Maybe someone will, it's your choice. Maybe they can play the hero and inspire others? But how many other heroes are roaming around your world who have the abiltiy, opportunity, and desire to interject? We have few. In our game, the PCs are the heroes. If we don't act as such, it's a lucky day when someone else saves the world. Or the kitten in the tree.

Ours is very much a: "if you don't do the right thing, who will?" kind of world. I like it cuz it reminds me of the real one.


EDIT: Sounds like you had a group that displaced the PCs. I guess that means thinking on one's feet on why they never acted in the first place. Maybe they're not as good as they put on?

 

[haakon1]

1) omnipotent but not omniscient.
2) Bigger fish to fry.
3) Personal connections.
4) Not Exactly How We Would Have Done It.

Good stuff, Mr. Burger. I'd add some thoughts about my own campaign, that might be useful.
1) Generally, it's low level. The average soldiers is a War1. Wiz5 is a respected guy, because he can sling fireballs.
2) C'est la guerre. There's a war on, so all resources are overtaxed. Everybody fights, nobody quits. At lower levels, the PC's deal with minor problems where the militia has been called off to war and there's no one else to do it. At middling levels (by which I mean 3rd or higher), they start to get assignments from the military/nobility and merchants who have heard of them, stuff like taking back a tower from the enemy or rescuing a merchant caravan. At high levels, they get important missions, like a diplomatic mission to far away (roadshow adventure). Missions to acquire MacGuffin's for the war effort always seem to fit.
2) The important high level NPCs are almost all retired PC's from previous campaigns in the same area. Their abilities are large, but by no means unlimited, and they have day jobs already:
-- Radric the Ranger is patroling the borderlands, occassionally checking in at the Keep
-- Balnagore the High Priest of Heimdall is based in the capitol city castle, healing the war wounded and guarding the city. Few know just how powerful he is, though, as it's essentially a state secret. He doesn't leave the halls of healing, as he's always busy there.
-- Dernhelm the paladin reincarnated as a gold dragon keeps human form and sleeps in the gate room at the bottom of the capitol city castle, guarding both ways -- holding the last ditch escape valve and making sure no more "visitors" stumble through unannounced.
-- Blastym the mage is working on magic items and cannot be disturbed.
-- Gildor the mage and other friends from the group that killed Lloth are far, far away in their castle across the plains -- linked by gate theoretically, but never seen in decades.

If the current party gets in trouble, they can get aid by sending a messenger, but it never seems to be an easy or quick trip. And therefore the cavalry -- actual human War1 cavalry, once with the dragon in human form -- shows up AFTER the night's battle is over.

 

[Doug McCrae]

Why should they save the world, if there are lots of people, more skilled and experienced who can and should take care of it.

Those guys are busy.

 

[Thornir Alekeg]

Good stuff, Mr. Burger.

Psst. It's Ms. Burger. Not that you can know that just from the name, of course.

Why should the PCs handle some problems, if there are others who can take care of it.

I think people have listed very good reasons why, but you are all missing the real reason why others more powerful than the PCs take care of things. Let take a listen to what really happens behind closed doors of the ArchMage Daranus:

Daranus: What news do you bring?
Unnamed NPC minion: Master Daranus, a group of evil cultists are trying to open the way for an army of demons to flood the land.
Daranus: Demons? Led by a Balor, I'm sure, right?
Minon: Well no, our intelligence says it will be led by a Nalfeshnee with many Vrocks...
Daranus: Oh come on, those things aren't worth any XP at all for me. That's just a complete waste of my time.
Minon: But, what about the destuction unleashed if they get loose in the land?
Daranus: There are plenty of young whippersnappers out there who are itching to take something like this on, and they'll get some XP for it. Don't worry, someone will come along.
Minon: But what if they don't come in time?
Daranus: Tell you what, if it will make you feel better, send a few people to the taverns and announce that I'm looking for some men and women, around level 12 or so, to deal with an urgent threat. Grab a few of those magic weapons we have cluttering up the back closet as a reward for them if they succeed. I'll meet with them for a couple of minutes and then you can fill them in with what you know. Now please let me get back to trying to figure out this damn Soduku.​

 

[fba827]

Most often, I use personal stake/goal as the motivation.

Either the PCs have a personal stake in what is about to unfold (it is their family going to be killed or they want the treasured jewel on the BBEG's necklace or what not) or it's the evil cult that slaughtered their tribe, etc etc. Or plain and simple survival (maybe they're the ones that will end up being affected severely by whatever the BBEG is about to do), and so on. -- the best personal stake however, isn't generic, it's something you can pull from the character's background and tie to the plot at hand.

I know, rather open-eneded advice but that's all that i got

 

[Maikl]

Nice dialog Thornir.
I had the same idea when the PCs tried to make mages help them. But they said:
"Demons destroying area (except for your guildhall) = bad for bussiness. You HAVE to do something."
Here are some more details of the whole story:
They faught some evil cultist and than took their corpses and corpses of their demonic servants to the nearest Pelor temple. Clerics told them to take care of this. The PCs than required some help from Pelor paladins, as it was an important thing(maybe I made it too important for low-level PCs...).
That's basically how it worked.

 

[Psion]

Those guys are busy.

More seriously, "those guys don't know". How many shows and movies have you seen where the premise is that protagonists have to escape the bad guys and get word to the authorities/good guys.

Or, the good guys aren't listening/paying attention because someone in their chain of command has been corrupt/compromised.

These are well heeled plot elements, folks. Use them!