Single-Level Flavor (heh!) Classes

[Saeviomagy]

Problems:

So far, all I see are front-loaded alternatives to base classes. They're not particularly flavourful, and they ARE giving something for nothing.
Why would I NOT take a level of gladiator for a fighter who intends on picking up an exotic weapon proficiency?

I'm looking at these, and going "what's here that couldn't be done with a couple of new feats?"

 

[Iron_Chef]

Well, exactly. Kenzer's core Gladiator class is pointless after first level, so I just shortened it to one level. Same with their Brigand class. Same with the PHB ranger. They're worthless past 1st level, so why penalize people for taking them? LOL.

 

[Saeviomagy]

That's a sign that the entire class should be removed from the game, not that the useless levels should be removed.

 

[Iron_Chef]

That's a sign that the entire class should be removed from the game, not that the useless levels should be removed.

LOL. Well, you have a point. The problem with adding more feats is there are already too many and too few slots to select from. The problem with PrCs is there are too many of them and most have unreasonable prerequisites forcing you to take "garbage" feats like Skill Focus, Endurance, Run, etc.

A PrC that doesn't give a cookie and, for spellcasters, +1 caster level every level, is one I'm not gonna take or progress very far in. I'll take the first level of it if it gives me both, but I can't afford to take a spellcasting level loss...

Like the Mindbender PrC in T&B... I'll take level 1 in it and the Master Summoner PrC in Plot & Poison... I'll take level one in that, too. But progressing further in Mindbender reduces my spellcasting level for some mind-affecting abilities with crappy non-scaling DCs, and taking extra levels in Master Summoner gives me crappy cookies (conjuration only metamagic powers I won't use very often if ever). You have to get cookies every level or playing it sucks. That's the video game mindset of 3e and it's only getting worse as more and more PrCs and feats are added. Nobody can afford not to be a diabolical min/maxing powergamer unless they have a death wish or enjoy seeing themselves regularly upstaged every session by the other players who went for power over flavor.

As to the flavor class concept, well, they could be made into 1 level PrCs you could take at 2nd level. I think there is some weird stigma attached to adding new core classes or PrCs of less than five or ten levels. But some character concepts don't require that many levels to play out their special abilities. Most I've seen don't, official or not. There are still some 2e multiclassing stigmas left over in the rules, whereas in the new crop of d20 games (WoTC or not), there is no penalty for multiclassing and it is considered the norm, and in fact, desirable. Hopefully, 3.5e will address some of these issues.

 

[Iron_Chef]

I'm no Monte Cook or Sean K, LOL. I'm just a guy mulling over new ideas and options to improve my game and maybe a few other peoples. I'll make a few blunders in the balance department, I'm sure, but I think balance is never a black and white, set in stone issue. It depends on the individual game. I'd like to find a way to make these flavor classes work in my game, or figure out another way to implement them or something like them, though I seem to be the one doing all the work in this thread as far as uploading actual flavor classes... *hint, hint*

 

[Nellisir]

I like the idea, and it works with some concepts I've been mulling over.

As far as saves go, taking a flavor class could simply advance your saves as though you had gained a level in your primary class (whatever you have the most levels in). Flavor classes taken at 1st level would have standard first level saves. You'd gain more by taking a flavor class at first level, but it'd still be worthwhile at later levels.

Flavor classes should probably provide few or no weapon or armor proficiencies. FCs that are particularly martial oriented (gladiator) should reflect that in BAB (+1), and/or their special abilities. Eliminating weapon & armor profs. also leaves more room for special abilities.

On reflection, the suggestion that # of class skills =s base skill points isn't bad either. Flavor classes may provide a list of skills, and the character must chose a number equal to their base skill points to have as (permanent) class skills.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Nellisir]

Flavor classes with a long list of prerequisites could indicate mastery of a certain fighting or spellcasting style.

Master classes?

 

[Bugaboo]

It's a subtle difference, but it is the difference between the Modern's "Strong 3/Dedicated 2 Celebrity Hero" and our "Fighter 3/Wizard 2/Noble 1" -- the modern hero is still only a 5th level character, but the other is a 6th level character.

Are you sure? I mean, from where I sit, you've got 3+2 levels in one character, and then 3+2+1 levels with the second character. That's ... (doing the math) ... 5 character levels versus ... (more math) ... 6 levels.

Oh. NOW I get it!
Yes. Very subtle.

 

[HalfElfSorcerer]

Hmmm...me like...

The Librarian (Flavor Class)
The librarian is any individual who writes things down, keeps track of books, or suchlike.

BAB: +0
Saves: +0 Fort, +0 Ref, +1 Will
Skills: 6 + Int mod skill points. Craft, Decipher Script, Knowledge (Any, bought individually), Profession.

Book Lore (Ex): The librarian gains a +1 bonus to Decipher Script, Profession (Scribe), and any Knowledge skill of their choice. In addition, the librarian learns one new language for free.

Arcane Writings (Sp): The librarian can cast read magic three times per day as a spell-like ability.

Whaddaya think?

 

[widderslainte]

I've been tinkering with the idea of using the d20 modern occuptation mechanics as "background templates", which would encompass about 75% of the 2E kits. The kits were a great idea, but poor execution. My solution is use the occuptation style, and assign ECL modifiers as needed. I don't know how people can knock kits and not prestige classes. I won't even talk about 8th level half-dragon mind flayer barbarians.