Six Saving Throws - One for Each Ability Score?

[Falling Icicle]

If I understand correctly (correct me if I'm wrong), each ability score is going to be used to make saving throws.

If this is true, I think this is a great idea. Someone tries to grapple you? Make a Strength save. Someone tries to disarm you? Dexterity. It makes every ability score valuable to every player, which is something I've wanted to see for a long time.

This also suggests that players will once again roll their saving throws, rather than having static defenses. I like this, though I know some people prefer the 4e way. But that's okay, it's easy enough to use static defenses if you want - just add the player's bonus to 10 instead of having them roll. I personally like being able to roll to save when my doom is at hand.

 

[Number48]

I like the concept. There are some potential pitfalls, so hopefully they'll be wise enough to avoid these. The first is if they aren't implemented equally. If you rarely have to make a Cha save and don't Cha in you class you have a dump stat. Dump stats are bad design. Also, with the saves being a direct contest, you introduce MUCH higher randomness. If the bad guy rolls really high on his grapple, it might be impossible to beat. Likewise, if he rolls really low, it might be impossible to fail.

Address those issues and we're good as gold.

 

[Gary N. Mengle]

The old Bard Games Arcanum system did this very thing. It's certainly not a big selling point for me, but it's a nice improvement on the old system and I have no problem with it.

 

[MortalPlague]

I quite like the idea. Also, they mentioned that there will be a default, but a player could suggest a different ability. The example they gave was a rogue wriggling out of a grab using DEX instead of breaking out with STR. I really like that they're making stats matter in this new edition.

 

[Li Shenron]

I like this idea too, as long as each ability gets its fair share of opportunities to be used for ST but also required at least sometimes... Something in the seminar almost suggested me that characters will have some freedom on which ability to use "creatively" for a ST, provided they back it up with some explanation. While this sounds like a good idea because it promotes creativity, it can easily once again bring the dump-stat problem back, if the clever player manages to "explain" nearly all his ST in terms of the same stat. Remember the suggestion to let fighters and barbarians intimidate with Strength? Sounds creative, but then all it really does is giving everyone one less reason to invest in Charisma.

The more I hear about the idea of making the 6 abilities more important than in the last 2 editions, the more I like it. But the designers should really work hard and make sure that ALL of them are equally important! If some ability gets the shaft in ST, then it can still be fine if such ability is more important in another area of the game, but remember modularity! That other area might be unused by some groups.

(edit) Also, that the links between abilities and ST is reasonable is just as important. I can fully take Charisma as a way to resist Charms. I'm a bit less convinced by Charisma to resist Fear, but I can accept that.

This also suggests that players will once again roll their saving throws, rather than having static defenses.

I think they mentioned at the seminar that the attacker will also roll to set the DC, at least in some cases.

 

[Falling Icicle]

I like the concept. There are some potential pitfalls, so hopefully they'll be wise enough to avoid these. The first is if they aren't implemented equally. If you rarely have to make a Cha save and don't Cha in you class you have a dump stat. Dump stats are bad design.

I believe they said that Cha would be used to save against things like fear and charm, so that would make Cha pretty useful.

Also, with the saves being a direct contest, you introduce MUCH higher randomness. If the bad guy rolls really high on his grapple, it might be impossible to beat. Likewise, if he rolls really low, it might be impossible to fail.

Address those issues and we're good as gold.

I think it's very likely that a natural 20 will be an automatic success on saving throws and a natural 1 an automatic failure, as in past editions, so that there's always some chance to succeed or fail.

Something in the seminar almost suggested me that characters will have some freedom on which ability to use "creatively" for a ST, provided they back it up with some explanation. While this sounds like a good idea because it promotes creativity, it can easily once again bring the dump-stat problem back, if the clever player manages to "explain" nearly all his ST in terms of the same stat. Remember the suggestion to let fighters and barbarians intimidate with Strength? Sounds creative, but then all it really does is giving everyone one less reason to invest in Charisma.

I have the same concerns. Hopefully there are some very strict guidelines and limits to this to prevent abuse (not to mention excessive rules arguments and whining at the DM).

 

[Yora]

Charisma was always meant as the abbility relevant to make others submite to your orders. Social armwrestling. That you can see through his attempts with Wisdom shouldn't nearly help you as much as your own ability to get things done as you want.

Strength is easy enough. Dragon Age 2 has strenght based fortitude, which is defense against being pushed around.

But I really don't see any good uses for Intelligence on the defense.

 

[ferratus]

But I really don't see any good uses for Intelligence on the defense.

It depends what you are defending against.

 

[Hassassin]

I think they mentioned at the seminar that the attacker will also roll to set the DC, at least in some cases.

This part I don't think I will like. One roll per attempt resolved should be the default for most situations. Opposed rolling slows things down.

 

[Hassassin]

But I really don't see any good uses for Intelligence on the defense.

Spells like maze. Maybe a feint attempt, although that could be wisdom.