Skill based magic in D20 games.

[Kelvor Ravenstar]

I'm working on a homebrew rules adaptation for D20 Modern using pieces of other d20 systems. So far its a skill and feat based, generally allowing degrees of success going up in 5 point increments on the skill rolls, and feats allowing access to more magic abilities with the three magic skills.

My question is what are your experiences with d20 skill-based magic? Which existing rule systems do you like? What are some of the problems with a system built on skill points, so I know what to look out for?


Background:
For anyone who's interested in what I want the system to do eventually: I'm currently running a D20 Modern campaign with some adaptations to try and emulate the world of the Dresden Files. I'm using the D20 Modern rules as the basis because I can't wait for the FATE system version by Evil Hat games, and I know my regular players aren't fans of learning a whole new system. They're d20 junkies.

In order to roughly emulate Dresden Files it has three magic skills: Evocation, Thaumaturgy, and Glamour, which are purchased the same as any other skill, but in order to get access to those skills, you need to spend a feat. Ritual magic is going to be covered with the Arcana skill, with one additional skill where appropriate.

Dresden Files has pretty much at-will magic, but people run out of energy eventually, so its going to need some system to monitor drain and impose penalties on the skill roles as the caster weakens. So far I've just been winging it based on when I think the one wizard character has cast enough to tire.

Suggestions and constructive criticism welcome. If there's interest I'll post what I have in the system so far, or link to it on a separate website.

 

[dystmesis]

Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth, by enworld's own RangerWickett is a skill-based magic system for d20 modern. It has, I believe... 8(?) magic skills. Attack, Illusion, Protect, Summon, Transform, etc. Magic with these skills is very free form... For example, an Attack 2 spell could give you a spell that does 2d6 fire damage, or a spell that adds +1d6 fire damage to your weapon. Access to these skills is granted by tradition feats, which not only give you
give you specific skills that you can use (For example, Blood Magic lets you use attack, transform, summon, etc.) but they also change the way that you use your spells (ie, blood magic gives you a bonus to your skill check if you cut yourself while casting, or after killing someone)

It's a very interesting system that you should check out

 

[Loonook]

I would really, REALLY suggest Elements of Magic: Mythic Earth for such a game. Having used it across various Modern games (my own Decades Cycle, a couple of one-offs [including a sort of runthrough of Summer Knight ]) it is an amazing system...

Simply put, there are several different skills (move, attack, summon, divine, etc.) which allow for many different styles of magic and play. It's a pretty simple system to even use as a sort of 'boost' instead of straight magic; I've had no issue converting various elements (Mantle of the Knights of Summer/Winter, lots of fey abilities in general, even the Denarians) using this system as a strict application of FX.

It really is, bar none, one of the easiest tweakable systems for FX, and it won't run you too much to pick up a digi-copy.

Slainte,

-Loonook.

 

[genshou]

I third the motion for Elements of Magic - Mythic Earth. It is, hands down, the best option for skills-based magic. The amount of variation you can make in rules and magical style allow it to work for any genre, and the skill-based mechanic removes a lot of the mess that other magic systems leave to deal with.

 

[The Black Kestrel]

While EoM: ME is an excellent ruleset I'd also suggest looking at True Sorcery. True Sorcery is and adaptation of the skill based magic system Green Ronin developed for their licensed Black Company Campaign Setting. Its based on a single skill with feats giving you access to various types of spells. I'd also suggest looking at the SFX Skills series of pdfs produced by UKG Publishing. They are based on "magical traditions" each of which has several skills associated with it. The more ranks in a skil you have the more you can do with it. If you played Alternity it would very familiar.

 

[ValhallaGH]

The danger I've encountered with EoM is power glut. Characters with the ability to have most, or all, of the magical skills can make some really, really, really broken spells. Especially with prep time. It's like Mordenkainen and Bigsby, except at level 7.
Still, a very interesting and pretty slick system.

I mention this because, having only 3 skills available, the OP is likely to have similar issues come up, where one person with some prep time can do anything. Which is true to the source material, but can be unfun in a game.

 

[Aus_Snow]

Modern: the Psychic's Handbook is great, as is the SFX Skills range.

Fantasy: I wouldn't bother with anything other than Legends of Sorcery, for the purpose of bringing skill-based casting to 3e. Well, unless you want to be building spells from scratch and all that (nothing against that, by the way, but it's very handy being able to use a whole massive system's worth of spells, as is).

 

[Scurvy_Platypus]

*deleted*

 

[genshou]

The danger I've encountered with EoM is power glut. Characters with the ability to have most, or all, of the magical skills can make some really, really, really broken spells. Especially with prep time. It's like Mordenkainen and Bigsby, except at level 7.
Still, a very interesting and pretty slick system.

I mention this because, having only 3 skills available, the OP is likely to have similar issues come up, where one person with some prep time can do anything. Which is true to the source material, but can be unfun in a game.

But you don't have to allow every magical tradition in Mythic Earth, and the feat investment should be deterrent enough anyway. Actually, it says near the beginning of the book that you should start with nothing and choose stuff from the book that you want for your game, instead of starting with everything and restricting things one by one. Characters are also restricted as to how many total spell levels they can put together. Just because you have 7 ranks in everything, that doesn't mean you can add 7 levels OF everything and be able to cast that spell.

In my modern gothic horror setting (humans vs. witches vs. vampires vs. werewolves), all witches start with the Witchcraft tradition feat at 1st-level in place of their human bonus feat, and can take a maximum of two additional traditions from the ones given in the book. This allows witches to have some versatility, but they will always have that certain darkness to them, that knowledge their power comes from a pact with an evil entity. On the other hand, if I wanted a Wuxia style setting, I might not allow any magical traditions but Anime-ism and Wuxia Sorcery. That's the nice thing about Mythic Earth - not only are you encouraged to take what you want to build the mythos you want, the rules are designed for this kind of flexibility to just work, and RangerWickett was kind enough to even put a whole chapter of advice on shaping a mythos for your campaign.

 

[ValhallaGH]

But you don't have to allow every magical tradition in Mythic Earth, and the feat investment should be deterrent enough anyway.

1) I'm not trying to argue about it. The OP asked for experiences and I shared the negative part of mine.
2) I didn't use any of the traditions from ME. Instead, I built brand new tradition feats based upon the setting I was using and using the existing ME traditions as models for my choices. Just like the book advises.
3) It still got very broken.

The mechanical limitation of Mythic Earth isn't the feat investment; that's a barrier, but it's an on/off barrier. The mechanical limitation of Mythic Earth is skill points available to PCs. And if a PC is able to invest in the skills without crippling their other abilities then they will become very powerful. Very, very powerful. Powerful enough that, around the level they can have 10 ranks in most of their skills, they will be tearing challenges up like the wizards in bad fantasy novels do. I consider this a flaw, though I'm sure others have different opinions.

Again, if the OP sticks with 3 magical skills then he'll run into similar issues of a single character being able to win by himself (and each additional PC increasing the team's power exponentially). It's a nasty pitfall, but there are ways around it; which ones to use depends upon the group he's dealing with.

• Requiring a primary magical skill which can have max ranks equal to level +3 and all others are restricted to a lower point, half if cross-class.
• Only allowing one magical skill to be a class skill. The others are restricted to cross-class.
• Require separate feats for access to each skill.
• Talk to your players and get them to police themselves.

Good luck, and good gaming.