Skype player + Table group. What to expect?

[Fanaelialae]

We've been doing this and it hasn't been bad. There was one day recently, where we had a frustrating hour or two, when our remote player's internet connection kept dropping. That did delay game, but we've been playing this way every other week for a few months now and that was the only time we had such issues. In addition, we're fairly certain it was his ISP rather than Skype so there wasn't much we could have done. That said, our remote player is only a two hour drive from us, so you might have more issues overseas.

Occasionally you'll have to repeat things for the remote player's sake, but as long as you have a good mic it shouldn't happen too often.

With minis we've found that the Skype video feed isn't typically sufficient for more than a basic idea of what's going on, so before that player's turn I'll take an overhead picture with my phone and text it to him. That's made it a lot easier for him to keep up with what's going on.

 

[Steel_Wind]

Ok.

I would answer that I feel well qualified to answer this question. I currently play in 3 Pathfinder Adventure Paths via Skype and run another. In three of the APs in which I play, the game is hosted with some players live and at least two players who are remote. In the game I run, all five players are remote.

We have been doing this now, multiple times per week, for two years.

First off:

The Broad Brush Strokes

1 - Use Skype. Don't mess with Google Hangouts, Teamspeak or Vent. Overall, Skype is the best service for this application.

2- No, you are not going to run any of this wirelessly if you plan to do this successfully over the long haul. If that's your plan -- stop right now. Gaming remotely is a high bandwidth application and this requires a wired internet connection on both the host and player's end. There is no persistent margin of error here. Run a Cat 7/RJ45 twisted-pair LAN cable to the table. If you want good fidelity audio +high res video, then make sure this is a wired game or just don't bother, okay?

3- You will require a decent omnidirectional microphone at your table. I recommend the Blue Snowball or, better still, the Blue Yeti II set in omnidirectional mode.

4- You require not simply ONE Webcam, but TWO webcams. You should be looking at getting two Microsoft Lifecam Studio cams. While they each have 1080p sensors, with default software they will run at 720p. Newegg has them for about $45 each.

5- You need a 6 foot tall microphone boom. You will NOT be using this for a microphone, you will instead use it to mount a webcam over the table to view the battlemat. You want a boom as this allows you to pull back and put the camera in close to the action as required. DO NOT attempt to do this any of this without a microphone boom as you will be very unhappy with the results and might say something inane like "don't try to use a battlemat as it doesn't work". Yes, it works BRILLIANTLY but you need to put the effort in -- and you need the hardware and software to do it, too.

You can eBay a microphone boom for less than $20 or get one at a local musician's supply store for under $30. Either way, it's essential gear. You NEED this, I can't stress it strongly enough.

6 - If you want more than one person in the videoconference, someone will have to have a Skype premium account. As it sounds right now, it's just you and the remote player so Skype is free. That's a plus.

The Other Techie Considerations

Now, we get to the techie part. This sounds intimidating but it actually isn't. Take a breather and read the below a few times. It's actually pretty easy.

Here is the deal: In order to do this effectively and successfully, it requires 2 cameras and two video feeds on the host's end as well as a camera boom and an omindirectional microphone. It should also have one monitor at the table and a computer with a fair bit of VOOM. If you have an additional computer with moderate computing power (even a laptop will do) then your broadcast machine will not need that much voom. (As you will use the weaker machine for Skype and the stronger machine for Xsplit/encoding). A robust i5 or i7 machine is capable of doing both simultaneously.

You need two cams and a monitor at the table because without it, it isn't like the player is there -- for you or for him/her. But using two cams allows you to use ALL of this together to make your game work.

Camera #1

On Camera #1: You use one of your 720p cameras which will be broadcasting the entire table of players over Skype video + audio to your remote player. His or her cam will be broadcasting their cam to the monitor placed on your tabletop where all the players can see him or her. When you talk to the remote player? You look at their monitor and see their face all zoomed in at 23" resolution. It's just like he or she is there.

Skype does not permit more than one camera from the same location. While you CAN attempt to hook up another computer with Skype and broadcast as a third person in that video conference, this is sub-optimal. Firstly, Skype will not work with 3 members in the video conference without Skype Premium and even if you have Skype Premium, when you are trying to send multiple video feeds from the same IP, it will start to compress your signal. You don't want that.

Camera #2

So here is what you do. You create a free broadcaster account on one of the following three services: Justin.TV/Twitch, Ustream or on PWN3d. I would suggest Pwn3d as a 1st choice, Justin/Twitch as a second and Ustream only as a last resort. All three of these streaming services are FREE and do not cost you anything. The best overall picture quality is Pwn3d and the worst is Ustream. Twitch can be made to be pretty decent.

What you will broadcast to that streaming service is the video feed (and you can send the audio feed too if you like for a non-participant's/viewers use, but no actual participant in the game should ever be listening to the streamed audio - *always* mute it) from your cam mounted on your microphone boom over the battlemat. Your remote player will have that feed running in a window (or better still, on another monitor hooked up to their computer).

So, from the player's perspective, ideally, they see on one monitor the video feed of all of the players in the game like they are there at the table via Skype. You can mount the cam either up high or just on top of the monitor looking over the table as it they were sitting there. They will spend most of their time looking at that Skype video conference feed while they are looking at the rest of the players. It's just like they are there.

On the second monitor, they will simply look at the cam mounted to the microphone boom over the battlemat. This cam will provide a GREAT view of the action and is, in fact, a BETTER view than if you were there physically at the table if you use your boom correctly. (I have done this for two years multiple times a week -- yes -- I'm dead serious).

Die rolls are all on the honor system. You roll the bones and read em as they fall. The end.

The Incredible Power of Xsplit

The picture quality you stream to Twitch/Pwn3d will be in HD resolution if you use a free software encoding tool to do this for you. It's currently in beta and it is called Xsplit. The power of Xsplit is awesome and the learning curve on the software is surprisingly flat. In about one hour, you will know all about the software you will ever need to. Thereafter, when you game, you fire up your machine(s), make the Skype call, fire up Xsplit, hit broadcast and you are done. Then you just game.

The only real change you will have with your gaming style is having to periodically adjust the camera boom over that battlemat. Otherwise, everything else will work as you normally game without too many difficulties. There is no real lag-time or quality issues using Skype - even internationally - as long as both of you are on broadband, using WIRED connections and your upload isn't being throttled. Hiccups will happen from time to time, but it's no biggie. There can be some lag time with the streaming service video cam, but if you are not recording the session using Xsplit, the delay is about 5-7 seconds, tops. You get used to it.

You will find that your live streaming to Twitch using Xsplit is near 720p HD in quality and will be rock solid. The picture quality is jaw droppingly good.

The Results: In a word AWESOME

I play like this in all of my AP games now and the only gaming I do face-to-face is now at PFS sessions. Frankly, I prefer gaming remotely. I don't have any travel time issues at all. I am able to game at home during weeknights (not just weekends) with minimal disruptions and the quality of the game is just like I'm there. It's not "like" real gaming -- it IS real gaming. I see more of the battlemat and "the mini game" than if I was there in person. Yes, *really*.

The only real downside is that I can't throw in $5 and share the pizza.

That is, literally, the only downside. I smoke in the comfort of my basement at my computer desk when I want and there is no non-smoker issues involved for me at all. My wife isn't wondering where I am or complaining that I wasn't there when this, that, or the other things came up. I get up with my wireless headset and go off to tuck the kids in bed when I need to. I can step away and throw laundry in the dryer when I need to and best of all -- when the game is over? I'm *home*. I didn't rush around to clean up the place for people coming over, I didn't spend 1.5 hours to and from the game. I play from my computer room -- which is where I would probably be if I wasn't gaming, anyways! If I'm hosting the game, after the game is over I take down my folding table and put the camera boom back into the upright position. That's it; that's all. Ta-Da!

Gaming this way, I actually have enough time to game multiple times per week like I was in high school again and it was 30 years ago!

It takes some time to do this properly and it does take an investment of a few hundred bucks in gear. A good microphone plus a boom is about $100 to $130 and two good webcams will set you back another $100. Assuming you do not need to add more computer gear after that, you are golden.

I cannot recommend this setup highly enough and I am a HUGE fan of this type of gaming. It doesn't simply work -- it ROCKS.

 

[Wild Gazebo]

That's great!

But, have you even tried a tabletop program? After trying Fantasy Grounds a couple of years ago I even started using it in my 'in person' games just because of the great organization and tracking features.

I'm just about to try a multi-player, multi-location game...but didn't know about the limits of Skype so thanks for that...and I hadn't even considered using a separate camera for a battlemat. Do you really enjoy that set-up better than a shared tabletop program?

In the past we have had single players remotely and have always turned the video off so that the sound was more consistent (never had to repeat or slow down play). But, we always have a tabletop for rolling and messaging and organization...as well as our campaign wiki up for more general shared info and maps.

Now I've gotta go look into that premium account thingy.

 

[Steel_Wind]

That's great!

But, have you even tried a tabletop program? After trying Fantasy Grounds a couple of years ago I even started using it in my 'in person' games just because of the great organization and tracking features.

I own Fantasy Grounds 1,Fantasy Grounds2, and have a ten seat license for d20Pro. Yes, I have Map Tool as well. We have tried them all for multiple sessions with each.

Multi-camera setups provide a qualitatively better game experience. Here is why:

1. It feels like real gaming, not a hybrid computer game. Don't get me wrong, I love technology and I was the first on ENWorld to sing the praises of digital projection technology. But VTT play does not feel like a face to face session. It's something different.

2. It takes WAY less prep time. One of the big problems with VTTs is that as a GM you have to take the time to prep your encounters, maps , fog of war, etc. in the software. This takes a fair bit of time and in my experience, at least one hour per session (though you can prepare for multiple sessions all at once weeks ahead). It is still far too much time that I would rather spend on preparing other elements of the game.

3. It is easier to play as the technology now permits it. VTTs were invented at a time when streaming video was in it's infancy, free services like Twitch did not exist, and Xsplit was still a dream in some gamer's head. The technology to just go with projection/battlemats/flip mats and minis live over the net did not exist and the broadband was not robust enough to support it. And these new 1080p cameras for $45 was a pipe-dream. We might get 320x200 through a smaller pipe -- and a 1080p sensor was professional only video equipment costing hundreds -- if not THOUSANDS of dollars. And even if you somehow assembled all that anyway -- your CPU wasn't fast enough to encode it all at high-res on the fly.

No longer. If you were wondering what a multi-core i5 or i7 desktop processor with a 64 bit OS and 16 gigs of screaming fast ram was good for? Well, it was made for this.

Time has moved on and in all honesty, I think the VTT's technological niche moment has passed. There is no need for it now when all the benefits of mats, minis and dice can be brought to bear on the game remotely.

With d20Pro, however slick the software, it still felt like a computer game to me. A fun computer game, but still -- not the same experience as gaming at a regular tabletop session. With multi-cams, it is not LIKE real gaming, IT IS real gaming.

I have thousands and thousands of minis, a projector, battle mats and flip mats galore and I LOVE the feel of real dice in my hand. I admit, Fantasy Ground's dice roller is slick and its fog of war is slicker. But my fog of war is pretty hot on my setup,too -- and I don't spend hours setting it up, I don't worry whether or not someone is running Windows Vista or a Mac or they are slumming it on a Linux netbook or on an iPad from the cottage. It all works and the prep time as a GM is spent on the game, not on tinkering with scaling maps, or truing them up to make the grid actualy square.

I've tried all the major VTTs out there and this tech is superior, IMO.

 

[Plane Sailing]

Plane Sailing is near London, and he's been periodically joining us for playtests of A Game That Can't Be Named. Here's what we've done:

- I've been using Facetime, but there has been a lot of freezing and dropped calls. I hear that Google + Hangouts works better, and I'll try it.

- I put him on my iPhone, and plug my phone into a sound dock. That lets him be much louder and allows the phone to stay charged.

- Important! I bought a turntable/lazy susan that I put the sound dock on. Now I can easily swivel him towards whoever is talking, or spin it quickly to make him dizzy.

- I have considered another connection with a different camera so that he can see the map.

- I need to make it easier for him to hear. When many people talk at once it overwhelms my mic.

It has been huge fun, and works much better than I suspected!

The biggest issue is probably time difference (when I join a game at midnight that runs to 3am in the morning, I'd better not be working the next day!)

The time lag to the UK is just under a second, I'd say - on the first attempt my facetime was mirrored onto a TV, and I could see my guestures happening just under a second after I was making them.

I find that you can't do subtle role-play things (getting into character), as clarity of communication is important. It has been possible to join in with some of the banter and make jokes about stuff too.

I think the GM has to be aware of the remote person, and notice when they are trying to say something (Piratecat is good at this).

Our connection is wireless at both ends. Sometimes we have more drop-outs than other times; I guess it comes down to broadband contention varying from night to night.

Bottom line - give it a go. If only for the realisation that yes, we are living in the 21st century!

Cheers

 

[Wild Gazebo]

I own Fantasy Grounds 1,Fantasy Grounds2, and have a ten seat license for d20Pro. Yes, I have Map Tool as well. We have tried them all for multiple sessions with each.

Multi-camera setups provide a qualitatively better game experience. Here is why:

1, It feels like real gaming, not a hybrid computer game. Don't get me wrong, I love technology and I was the first on ENWorld to sing the praises of digital projection technology. But VTT play does not feel like a face to face session. It's something different.

2. It takes WAY less prep time. One of the big problem with VTTs is that as a GM you have to take the time to prep your encounters, maps ,fog of war etc in the software. This takes a fair bit of time, and in my experience, at least one hour per session (though you can prepare for multiple sessions all at once weeks ahead). It is still far too much time that I would rather spend on preparing other elements of the game.

3. It is easier to play. VTTs were invented at a time when streaming video was in it's infancy, free services like Twitch did not exist, and Xsplit was still a dream in some gamer's head. The technology to just go with projectionorbattlemats flip mats and minis live over the net did not exist and the broadband was not robust enough to support it.

time has moved on and in all honesty, I think the VTT's technological niche moment has passed. There is no need for it now when all the benefits of mats, minis and dice can be brought to bear on the game remotely.

With d20Pro, however slick the software, it still felt like a computer game to me. a fun computer ga,e, but still -- not the same experience as gaming at a regular tabletop session. with multi cams, it is not LIKE real gaming, IT IS real gaming.

I have thousands and thousands of minis, a projector, battle mats and flip ,ats galore and I LOVE the feel of real dice in my hand. I admit, Fantasy Ground's dice roller is slick and it's fog of war is slicker. But my fog of war is pretty hot on my setup too. And I don't spend hours setting it up, I don't worry whether or not someone is running Windows Vista or a Jac or they are slimming it on a
Linux netbook or on an iPad from the cottage. it all works and the prep time as a GM is spent on the ga,e, not on tinkering with scaling maps, or truing them up to make the grid actualy square.

I've tried all the major VTTs out there and this tech is superior, IMO.



With Xsplit (which has a bevy of bells and whistles to show handouts and other effects) and multiple cameras, we

Thanks! I really appreciate the honest response.

I have a hard time understanding the difference of prep...as I have tons of pre-made tokens and 95% of the time I use a blank grid and freehand the features while I'm talking. Sometimes I use premade or custom maps...but I mostly put those on my wiki for a more relevant reference: like countries and towns. I find a lot of effort on battlemaps is mostly a waste of time...unless I'm building up to a 'boss' encounter.

I think this is best for us because we always gamed with blank grid-paper in person as well.

I think I can understand the videogame/pen&paper feelings...I hope that doesn't happen to me. Because just the idea of setting up a battlemap video studio makes me feel exhausted.

Sounds like you have a lot more experience with the set-up than me though so I will keep this all in mind. Thanks again!

 

[Dragoslav]

<snip>

That sounds like a brilliant setup. When I have the money, I would love to get the proper equipment and set up something like that, since I think we'll be including this player remotely even after she returns. (And I may have to move elsewhere for employment [or lack thereof] reasons in the future, so I would like to have all this equipment for that).

We're running the game tomorrow, so I'll post about our experience afterwards.

 

[Matchstick]

Here's a link to a Google+ hangouts RPG application currently in development, and looking very good.

Tabletop Forge | Google+ Hangout Virtual Tabletop

We've used Fantasy Grounds and TeamSpeak for years and had great luck with it. I'm watching Tabletop Forge closely though.

 

[Dragoslav]

The bullet points from tonight:

-Overall, everyone thought it worked well, even though everyone was very skeptical at first.
-The remote player reported having trouble making out the minis and tiles. We had the webcam pinned up to a glass so that it was above the battlefield but very close to it, and the video was CRYSTAL CLEAR as I could see it, but she insisted that it was blurry on her end, leading me to believe that it was just a problem with video quality dropping because it was over wireless or whatever.
-I am DEFINITELY going to try the two-webcam solution proposed by Steel_Wind. Fortunately, our DM and his wife say they have a microphone stand, so that will probably work. We'll have one webcam pointed down at the battlefield and one farther back showing the whole group, so that when the battle starts the remote player isn't just staring at the battlemat for the next hour+ while the rest of us gesticulate wildly and vaguely indicate things that the remote player can't currently see.

Overall, it could have gone much better, but everyone was encouraged to continue working with it, which pleases me.