Slayer seems... meh.

[nookiemonster]

I've been running a party of 5 HotFL characters through H1. So far, the Thief seems like an excellent striker and the Slayer seems... not so good. Part of the problem is probably that the Thief is fairly optimised (Halfling, 18 dex, light blade expertise, shortsword & daggers) with the move thing that lets you get CA against lone monsters. That seems to happen a lot, especially with the Mage shoving everything around using Beguiling Strands. (The Mage will retrain to get Phantasmal Assault instead of Hypnotism next level.) So 3-4 times per encounter the Thief is doing Sneak Attack damage. With +4 from dex, +2 from class feature, +1 from light blade expertise, 1d6 short sword and 2d6 from Sneak Attack, he's doing a lot of damage. The Slayer is human, 18/14 Str/Dex, with the charging stance and +2 damage stances, heavy blade expertise, weapon focus heavy blades. Hits well and nice damage when charging, but can't seem to roll above a 1 with the greatsword.

 

[AbdulAlhazred]

OTOH the slayer has a good bit more hit points, probably a bit higher AC, and his defender abilities. He should be doing OK. He can amp up his damage once per encounter after he hits, etc. I think both players will have fun. The slayer will last longer, the rogue will do more damage per hit. The slayer can also get a better weapon, the thief is stuck with short swords or maybe the Kukri.

 

[Mirtek]

I've been running a party of 5 HotFL characters through H1. So far, the Thief seems like an excellent striker and the Slayer seems... not so good. Part of the problem is probably that the Thief is fairly optimised (Halfling, 18 dex, light blade expertise, shortsword & daggers) with the move thing that lets you get CA against lone monsters. That seems to happen a lot, especially with the Mage shoving everything around using Beguiling Strands. (The Mage will retrain to get Phantasmal Assault instead of Hypnotism next level.) So 3-4 times per encounter the Thief is doing Sneak Attack damage. With +4 from dex, +2 from class feature, +1 from light blade expertise, 1d6 short sword and 2d6 from Sneak Attack, he's doing a lot of damage. The Slayer is human, 18/14 Str/Dex, with the charging stance and +2 damage stances, heavy blade expertise, weapon focus heavy blades. Hits well and nice damage when charging, but can't seem to roll above a 1 with the greatsword.

Your damage calculations seem to be off

Slayer: +4 Str +2 Dex +1 Focus +2 Stance = +9
Rogue: +4 Dex + 2 Class = +6

Expertise only gives a bonus to hit, not to damage.

Their average damage on hit should be:

Fighter: 1d10+9 = 14.5
Rogue: 3d6+6 = 16.5

Assuming the same circumstances for both, the fighter will have a +11 vs. AC (+4 Ability, +3 prof., +1 feature, +1 expertise, +2 CA) which means his to-hit chance vs. a level 1 monster should be 85% (average AC 15).

The rogue will have a +10 vs. AC (+4 Ability, +3 prof., +1 expertise, +2 CA) which means his to-hit chance vs. a level 1 monster should be 80% (average AC 15).

Fighter: 14.5 * 0.85 = 12.3
Rogue: 16.5 * 0.80 = 13.2

If you meant that the rogue also has focus instead of expertise his damage of +7 is correct and his average damage would be 17.5. However this would mean that he's another -1 to hit compared to the fighter which would adjust the average damage

Fighter: 14.5 * 0.85 = 12.3
Rogue: 17.5 * 0.75 = 13.1

 

[J. R. Scherer]

Seems to me that the Slayer needs a better dex and different dice.

The Slayer's not going to deal as much damage as the Thief but he'll do that damage every single time he hits whether he has combat advantage or not. The Thief's extra damage will always be conditional. Of course, the smart Thief player will do his best to make sure that those conditions are met as often as is possible.

 

[J. R. Scherer]

Expertise only gives a bonus to hit, not to damage.

The feat 'Light Blade Expertise' that appears in Heroes of the Fallen Lands does give a bonus to damage when the character has combat advantage as well as the standard bonus to the attack roll.

 

[Mirtek]

The feat 'Light Blade Expertise' that appears in Heroes of the Fallen Lands does give a bonus to damage when the character has combat advantage as well as the standard bonus to the attack roll.

Ah, didn't know that. Does the rogue also still get an extra +1 to attack rolls like the fighter? As far as essentials goes I only have the red box, there the rogue doesn't get a to hit bonus.

 

[JoeGKushner]

Is it a problem for the players or just an observation.

If it is chocking game balance, then the other factors, ac and hit points, need to be tweaked out. If the thief is never getting attacked and just getting to glory in his damage, then yeah, it may seem out powered. If he has to start burning through healing surges and avoid getting hit... not so much.

 

[J. R. Scherer]

Ah, didn't know that. Does the rogue also still get an extra +1 to attack rolls like the fighter? As far as essentials goes I only have the red box, there the rogue doesn't get a to hit bonus.

The Thief build gets a +1 to attack rolls with all rogue weapons at level 2 and also gets a +2 to damage with the Weapon Finesse class ability that scales up with later levels.

 

[Oldtimer]

OTOH the slayer has a good bit more hit points, probably a bit higher AC, and his defender abilities.

Defender abilities? I haven't seen HotFL yet, but I had the impression that the slayer was a pure striker. Is he a defender-striker mix?

 

[drothgery]

Defender abilities? I haven't seen HotFL yet, but I had the impression that the slayer was a pure striker. Is he a defender-striker mix?

No. The Knight build has defender abilities, but other than being a heavily armored guy with a big weapon standing between the bad guys and the squishies, the Slayer build doesn't.