Sleep and sorta a 4th ed ? in general

[Tellerve]

Just making sure I understand how the new system works. In the sleep spell if you hit it says you slow the creature (save ends), and if the creature fails the first saving throw then the creature is unconsious (save ends).

So, if you cast this and hit, what is the saving throw? And if the creature fails that he is unconsious for that round and next round at the end of his turn he gets another saving throw chance? If he's successful he becomes slowed? And then at the end of the round of being slowed he gets another saving throw to shake off being slowed?

Is this correct or am I missing something? I kinda feel like I might be missing something easy.

thanks,

Tellerve

 

[Rith the Wanderer]

Just making sure I understand how the new system works. In the sleep spell if you hit it says you slow the creature (save ends), and if the creature fails the first saving throw then the creature is unconsious (save ends).

So, if you cast this and hit, what is the saving throw? And if the creature fails that he is unconsious for that round and next round at the end of his turn he gets another saving throw chance? If he's successful he becomes slowed? And then at the end of the round of being slowed he gets another saving throw to shake off being slowed?

Is this correct or am I missing something? I kinda feel like I might be missing something easy.

thanks,

Tellerve

Thats fairly corrrect. Technically the slow effect and the sleep effect are two separate saving throws(a saving throw is always a flat d20, 10 or above is success). So if the creature fails the first saving throw, every round after that it makes two saving throws, one for the slow and one for the unconscious.

This is the official custserv answer, but it is a little complicated, so feel free to run it as both being the same save if you want.

 

[Tellerve]

huh, makes sleep not as neat as I thought. I think I'd certainly keep the slow and sleep as seperate saves to make it a bit more viable. EDIT: Just found the part in the phb, oddly enough under saving throws *sigh*, that it mentions after effects, and doesn't explicitly state sleep in its example, it seems like they are using it. And there should be two saving throws, one for unconsious and one for slow. And they can't be on the same round, so that if you failed the first round you'd at least be out two rounds.

Thanks for the reply though

Tellerve

 

[SadisticFishing]

Woah, DO NOT BUFF SLEEP, haha.

Sleep is unbelievably potent if used properly. I'm playing a level 3 wizard, and it's won us no more or less than one fight a day. Not *quite* single handedly, but pretty damn close.

I'm also an Orb wizard with 15 wisdom, but that doesn't really matter - the slowed effect is incredible, and the fact that they fall asleep on a failed save just makes it that much better.

 

[Tellerve]

I don't think I'm buffing it to have it be two different saves. That appears to be how it is written to be in the phb. How have you been playing it? I can certainly see it being powerful though, don't get me wrong, just gotta get used to the 55% chance of people avoiding unconsciousness or slow.

Tellerve

 

[Exasperation]

I think you may be misreading it (or applying saves too early). As written, there is a 0% chance of the slow being avoided, even if you miss. It goes like this:

You cast sleep. Whether you hit or not, your targets are slowed.

Enemy gets its turn, but is slowed. At the end of its turn, it can save to remove the slow. If you had successfully hit it and it fails its save, it falls asleep - but it doesn't get to save against the sleep effect until the end of its next turn.

The only way they can completely avoid being slowed is if they (or an ally) has a power that can grant them a free save before their turn starts (see Hobgoblin Resilience or Sacred Flame).

In general, any 'save ends' effect will affect you for one turn before you get your first chance to save against it.

 

[Contents May Vary]

Yeah, it's a nice power.

I think people underestimate how nice the slowing aspect is! Since 4th ed is so dynamic in the battles, stopping something from moving about much can be really nasty.

 

[underfoot007]

Just making sure I understand how the new system works. In the sleep spell if you hit it says you slow the creature (save ends), and if the creature fails the first saving throw then the creature is unconsious (save ends).

So, if you cast this and hit, what is the saving throw? And if the creature fails that he is unconsious for that round and next round at the end of his turn he gets another saving throw chance? If he's successful he becomes slowed? And then at the end of the round of being slowed he gets another saving throw to shake off being slowed?

Is this correct or am I missing something? I kinda feel like I might be missing something easy.

thanks,

Tellerve

so if you hit a creature, it is slowed.

On it's turn it can act (slowed) then saves, if it fails it is unconsious, until it saves.

Remember all saves are at the end of your turn.