ForbidenMaster
Explorer
D'karr said:
No, fluff actually means nothing what so ever when it has to do with what the power actually does. If the sleep spell actually put you to sleep it would say so. It wouldnt say unconscious (save ends).
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Sleep & Unconsciousness
- Thread starter Kzach
- Start date
No, fluff actually means nothing what so ever when it has to do with what the power actually does. If the sleep spell actually put you to sleep it would say so. It wouldnt say unconscious (save ends).
James McMurray
First Post
From what I've heard in other threads, Sleep originally used the rules for sleeping and waking, but was deemed too easy to break. Standard sleep means that allies can wake you almost before you hit the ground by shouting as a free action. Failing that, you need only make a DC 0 Perception check at -5 to have the battle around you wake you up.
They upped it to magical sleep (save ends) to account for that. You're still sleeping, it's just not the normal sort that a swift kick to the groin or a loving "time to go to work dear" will end.
They upped it to magical sleep (save ends) to account for that. You're still sleeping, it's just not the normal sort that a swift kick to the groin or a loving "time to go to work dear" will end.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Well, irregardless, villain orb wizards can get really creepy.
FungiMuncher
First Post
The level 9 rogue attack Knockout renders the target unconscious if you hit. It does not have the Sleep keyword in its description.
The level 1 wizard attack Sleep renders the targets unconscious, but also has the Sleep keyword in its description.
The rules for sleeping on page 263 says you wake up if you take damage.
The Oni Night Hauter has the Hypnotic Breath power, which renders the target unconscious. It has the Sleep keyword. Its Devour Soul power says that this attack does not wake up the unconscious target. This implies that (most) any other attack would wake up the target.
To me, it seems that 'Sleeping' (when the Sleep keyword is involved) is a milder subset of the unconscious status. Smacking the target would wake them up.
However, it would be mighty helpful if there were some clarification on this.
The level 1 wizard attack Sleep renders the targets unconscious, but also has the Sleep keyword in its description.
The rules for sleeping on page 263 says you wake up if you take damage.
The Oni Night Hauter has the Hypnotic Breath power, which renders the target unconscious. It has the Sleep keyword. Its Devour Soul power says that this attack does not wake up the unconscious target. This implies that (most) any other attack would wake up the target.
To me, it seems that 'Sleeping' (when the Sleep keyword is involved) is a milder subset of the unconscious status. Smacking the target would wake them up.
However, it would be mighty helpful if there were some clarification on this.
DLichen
First Post
I don't think so, sleep keyword just lets some monsters be immune to sleep.
The Oni Night Haunter's sleep attack also has no save, so it is presumed that you must get woken up by being hit or by an ally.
For comparison, the Beholder's sleep ray also has a save ends and can be assumed to be magical sleep.
It was probably some last minute design change.
The Oni Night Haunter's sleep attack also has no save, so it is presumed that you must get woken up by being hit or by an ally.
For comparison, the Beholder's sleep ray also has a save ends and can be assumed to be magical sleep.
It was probably some last minute design change.
Danceofmasks
First Post
Ah, but devour soul works on any unconscious target .. such as someone who is sleeping normally.
Purpose of the sleep keyword is for immunity and resistances that grant save bonuses, etc. .. for example, stone golem.
Purpose of the sleep keyword is for immunity and resistances that grant save bonuses, etc. .. for example, stone golem.
James McMurray
First Post
The Beholder is a Level 19 monster whose has an ability functionally identical to the Sleep spell: puts you to sleep, save ends. If it works as normal sleep it is almost completely useless, even without the "shout to waken" clause under sleeping. A DC 5 Perception check to hear the battle cannot be failed by an 18th level character unless he has a 0 stat or a -1 penalty from somewhere. Even then he would need a very low stat coupled with a hefty penalty to make it anywhere near likely that he wouldn't wake up instantly.
Either two identical abilities are meant to function differently, no beholder will ever use Sleep unless he's snuck up on someone, or "save ends" is meant to be the only thing that will end the effect.
Either two identical abilities are meant to function differently, no beholder will ever use Sleep unless he's snuck up on someone, or "save ends" is meant to be the only thing that will end the effect.
Danceofmasks
First Post
I seem to recall that (save ends) durations wear off in 5 minutes if it's still in effect.
However, I can't seem to find it anywhere .. maybe it was a custserv response.
However, I can't seem to find it anywhere .. maybe it was a custserv response.
FungiMuncher
First Post
[Sure, devour soul works on any sleeping target, but wasn't my point ]
So, it seems like many of you are saying that when a power states "unconscious (save ends)" that the power is magical sleep and thus the only way it ends, but when it says "unconscious (no save)" it's normal sleep.
I'd feel more certain of that interpretation if there was an actual rule stating so. Is there one?
Designers: Disambiguation needed!
]So, it seems like many of you are saying that when a power states "unconscious (save ends)" that the power is magical sleep and thus the only way it ends, but when it says "unconscious (no save)" it's normal sleep.
I'd feel more certain of that interpretation if there was an actual rule stating so. Is there one?
Designers: Disambiguation needed!
