Sleep?

[wraith8]

I just got the players handbook, and boy is it a mess.

Anyhow, i noticed a bunch of people saying sleep is rather powerful, but I'm extremely confused.

My understanding of how it works is:

Opp makes 1 save, if he fails he's slowed.
If he fails the save, then he has to attempt a 2nd save to prevent from being unconscious.

Also, how does the orb ability of a wizard work with this?

Some help would be appreciated.

 

[Arbitrary]

The orb wizard's plan is to have a high Wis, take Spell Focus (-2 to saves) and then blow their Orb on a Sleep, choosing the second effect to get the large penalty. The Orb does not affect every component of a spell that has a saving through so you have to pick. Some WotC clarification or some such thing.

So if you've got a +5 wisdom and spell focus that's -7 right there and you might just auto win versus a solo or elite.

 

[Rashak Mani]

I don't think its that great... but I'm a minority in this aspect.

How it works.

Cast Spell
Determine Area
Those in area are slow.

When they finish doing their first turn they make their first save:

Roll 10+ ? Saved ! You are normal.
Roll 9 or less... your asleep.

Roll save every round in order to be normal again.

 

[Alane]

My understanding of how it works is:

Opp makes 1 save, if he fails he's slowed.
If he fails the save, then he has to attempt a 2nd save to prevent from being unconscious.

Not exactly. It works like this: the enemy is always slowed. If the Wizard's attack roll (Int vs. Will Defense) succeeds and the enemy fails his first saving throw against the slow, then he falls unconscious immediately - no additional saving throw. The following round, he gets a saving throw against the unconsciousness; if he makes that saving throw, he wakes up.

Note that if the Wizard fails his original attack roll, there is no chance of the enemy falling asleep. The enemy is merely slowed until he makes a saving throw.

Also, how does the orb ability of a wizard work with this?

Once per encounter, the Wizard can use his orb to give one enemy a saving throw penalty equal to the Wizard's own Wisdom modifier. If Wally Wizard has a Wisdom of (say) 16, and uses his Orb on a particular enemy, then that enemy suffers a -3 penalty on all his saving throws to overcome the Sleep spell.

- Alane -

 

[Kordeth]

Once per encounter, the Wizard can use his orb to give one enemy a saving throw penalty equal to the Wizard's own Wisdom modifier. If Wally Wizard has a Wisdom of (say) 16, and uses his Orb on a particular enemy, then that enemy suffers a -3 penalty on all his saving throws to overcome the Sleep spell.

- Alane -

Not quite--it's one save that takes the penalty, as Arbitrary said. The slowed and unconscious effects are separate saves, so you want to hit the target with the penalty only if he fails to save versus the slowed effect and falls asleep.

 

[Alane]

Not quite--it's one save that takes the penalty, as Arbitrary said. The slowed and unconscious effects are separate saves, so you want to hit the target with the penalty only if he fails to save versus the slowed effect and falls asleep.

Aha - I missed that little twist. Thanks for the correction!

- Alane -

 

[Seeker_of_Truth]

Not quite--it's one save that takes the penalty, as Arbitrary said. The slowed and unconscious effects are separate saves, so you want to hit the target with the penalty only if he fails to save versus the slowed effect and falls asleep.

Saying only one save is confusing. It works on only one 'save ends' effect no matter how many rounds it lasts for.

 

[wraith8]

Not quite--it's one save that takes the penalty, as Arbitrary said. The slowed and unconscious effects are separate saves, so you want to hit the target with the penalty only if he fails to save versus the slowed effect and falls asleep.

It's this talk that confuses me.

So if i understand this right, you cast it. Anyone hit with it is auto slowed. they then get a save to stay awake, if they fail they fall asleep.

next turn they get a save to unslow/wake up.

 

[GorTeX]

Cast sleep
Roll an attack (int vs will) versus every creature in the area of effect
If you succeed on an attack roll, that creature is Slowed and if they fail their save at the end of their next turn, then they are unconscious as well as slowed. Each condition must be saved against separately.

If you miss the attack roll, that creature is Slowed until they pass a saving throw.

 

[JohnSnow]

It's this talk that confuses me.

So if i understand this right, you cast it. Anyone hit with it is auto slowed. they then get a save to stay awake, if they fail they fall asleep.

next turn they get a save to unslow/wake up.

Mostly. It's a decision tree.

Wizard Casts sleep.

Case A: HIT - Effect: Target is slowed (save ends). Target Rolls save.
Success = Target no longer slowed.
Failure = Effect: Target falls unconscious (save ends).
Target Rolls save.

a) Success = Target wakes.
b) Failure = Target stays unconscious. Try again next round.​

Case B: Miss - Effect: Target is slowed (save ends). Target Rolls Save.
Success = Target no longer slowed.
Failure = Target still slowed. Roll again next round. Rinse and repeat.

Make sense?