Sleight of Hand on Spell Component Pouches

[takasi]

By the RAW, what method do you need to take to grab a wizard's spell component pouch? Is it a simple DC 20 sleight of hand check, assuming the pouch the pouch is neither stored nor in hand?

Does it make more sense for a wizard to try to keep his spell component pouch in hand at all times to ensure it's a disarm attempt instead of the (I think) simpler sleight of hand check?

 

[themightybiggun]

Yea, I would go with just a normal sleight of hand check, unless the player/npc is specifically carrying the pouch in hand to prevent this. (Possible, if he has that in the one hand, he can hold the material/focus in the other hand and make the motions with it.)

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Getting the pouch off of the wizard, and getting away with it unnoticed are two different things.

To get away with it - is just DC 20
To get away with it unnoticed, your Success has to beat the wizard's spot check.

Furthermore - does doing this in combat provoke an AoO?

 

[James McMurray]

I would never allow sleight of hand in a combat situation without extenuating circumstances. The rules for taking something off someone in combat are in the combat section under disarm and grapple.

 

[UltimaGabe]

I would never allow sleight of hand in a combat situation without extenuating circumstances. The rules for taking something off someone in combat are in the combat section under disarm and grapple.

Correct. If I'm not mistaken, the only way to take an item off of someone in combat without disarming them is to grapple them, and make a slight of hand check during the grapple.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

Unless I missed something, Sleight of Hand is a standard action. (Unless you take the -20 for it to be a free action) Using skills in combat 'usually' provokes an attack of opportunity.

While this may seem "too good", Sleight of hand can only steal small objects (smaller than a light crossbow) from a victim. Note that Sleight of hand cannot steal anything Worn by the subject. (It onlu says lift an object; it does not say it can disarm a foe, even of an easy-to-remove object, such as a headband or necklace) You cannot steal the wizard's spell component pouch if it is attached to their belt (A Disarm would let you do so, unless it is "secured", then you need to pin them). However, you could steal the wizards spell components. (1 at a time)

EDIT: Though I just noticed the "sample" action in the begining of the skills section lists sleight of hand as stealing a coin pouch. Guess you can steal the spell component pouch.

 

[Gerion of Mercadia]

Using skills in combat 'usually' provokes an attack of opportunity.

Yes, but check out concentration and using skills defensively. There was a discussion that got really heated over something very similar and I'm trying to figure out where it went;

 

[Wish]

I'd never allow this during combat. There rules in the grappling section that lets you do this, but it properly sets the bar very high. The idea that any 1st level rogue with who can roll a 13 or so on a d20 can negate even the highest level spellcaster's primary class ability is really just plain stupid. It's a loophole in the rules, and I'm just not on board with allowing people to exploit it.

This is particularly a problem with published adventures, where players can quite correctly metagame that the authors haven't planned counter-measures for this particular piece of cheddar.

 

[Jhulae]

It's not a Slight of Hand check.. it's a Sunder or Disarm attempt.

Sundering a Carried or Worn Object

You don’t use an opposed attack roll to damage a carried or worn object. Instead, just make an attack roll against the object’s AC. A carried or worn object’s AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier + the Dexterity modifier of the carrying or wearing character. Attacking a carried or worn object provokes an attack of opportunity just as attacking a held object does. To attempt to snatch away an item worn by a defender rather than damage it, see Disarm. You can’t sunder armor worn by another character.

 

[Ltheb Silverfrond]

A 1st level rogue would have a hard time taking a 20th level mage's spell components.

1 - He has to get to the mage. The best way to do this is to hide and move silently.(Otherwise the mage Disintegrates them with their first action) The mage may have decent listen/spot skills, and if they have their familiar, they get +2. (Plus their familiar gets to roll too)

2 - It does provoke an AoO, which as Gerion of Mercadia pointed out, can cause a concentration check to ruin the attempt. Rogues don't have concentration as a class skill. (Though bards do) A 20th level mage probably has some sort of a melee weapon. (A staff will do)

3 - Many spells don't have material components, like Finger of Death. (Which will likely be the next thing the wizard does to the poor rogue)

4 - A 20th level mage probably didn't get to 20th level believing their spell component pouch was untouchable. Aside from Hiding their spell component pouch (Which I believe requires sleight of hand to hide an object on your person) the wizard could put all maner of ensorcelments on the pouch to prevent theft. A quick glance tells me Symbol of Death need not be scribed on a non-movable surface in 3.5. (It just can't be cast on a weapon) Therefore, a wizard is likely to inscribe one or more Symbols on their spell component pouches. Since foes trying to use Sleight of hand are few and far between (since stabbing the mage in his sleep is a far better option) this is probably a good investment. (And has an added benift of disableing other unseen rogues within 60')