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Pathfinder 1E Sliding of a Banister
- Thread starter Ramm83
- Start date
The Crimson Binome
Hero
It's an Acrobatics check, DC 19 (assuming it's 6 inches wide and less than a 45% angle, and has been polished recently).
It also requires the Shot On The Run feat, as it is otherwise impossible to shoot while in the middle of movement.
It also requires the Shot On The Run feat, as it is otherwise impossible to shoot while in the middle of movement.
The Crimson Binome
Hero
Yes, but you're limited to half speed while you use an Acrobatics check to move on a narrow/uneven surface, so you'd only be able to move 15 feet down the banister before making your attack (assuming you have a base movement speed of 30).
There are some other rules, with particular spells and magic items, which imply that you might move faster when you're sliding downhill. The rules for Acrobatics don't really go into that, though.
There are some other rules, with particular spells and magic items, which imply that you might move faster when you're sliding downhill. The rules for Acrobatics don't really go into that, though.
The Crimson Binome
Hero
The way Legolas would do it, the bow would be held horizontally like a balancing pole. Normally, if you use a balancing pole while crossing a narrow surface, you gain a +1 to the check. This probably isn't enough to grant that bonus (although a lenient GM might allow it), but it's probably close enough to not cause a penalty.
In general, though, Pathfinder asks that you not worry about exact weight distribution and balance during checks. If you're way overburdened with loot and heavy armor, then you have the armor check penalty for that, but otherwise you're not supposed to worry about it.
In general, though, Pathfinder asks that you not worry about exact weight distribution and balance during checks. If you're way overburdened with loot and heavy armor, then you have the armor check penalty for that, but otherwise you're not supposed to worry about it.
don't forget the "stop" at the end of the banister 
it could come as a surprise.
it could come as a surprise.Looking at Acrobatics, "When you deliberately fall any distance, even as a result of a missed jump, a DC 15 Acrobatics skill check allows you to ignore the first 10 feet fallen, although you still end up prone if you take damage from a fall. See the falling rules for further details.", so a DC 15 check would allow the character, in my view, to jump to the floor at the end of the banister.
His being flat footed with no DEX bonus while sliding down the banister, if we apply the acrobatics rules precisely, may be a greater concern. this, and halved movement, also does not seem consistent with the source material where Our Hero seems to glide down the banister quite nimbly. BTW, +5 to the DC would let him move at full speed on a narrow surface.
Perhaps another approach is to consider sliding down the banister an action similar to falling. The character is not "walking a tightrope" to balance on the banister, as the balancing check would apply. Rather, he is using the banister to "fall" from the top of the stairs to the bottom of the stairs in a controlled manner, with some horizontal movement added in.
So how high is the staircase? Maybe 20 feet? A DC 15 Acrobatics check would allow the character to jump off the stairs and fall 20', taking 1d6 nonlethal damage. Perhaps adding in a means of slowing the fall, such as sliding down the banister (or rolling down a hill) should modify the falling rules. That kind of thing seems to happen a lot without the source material characters being seriously injured. so perhaps it increases the distance which can be fallen with no, and with non-lethal, damage.
Another rule to look at - terrain. The banister could be viewed as just another form of terrain, with the advantage that sliding down it can enhance, rather than decrease, movement. If climbing up the banister is considered "difficult terrain", it halves movement, just like climbing would if you took a -5 penalty - as you're climbing a slope, that would make the DC 5. So let's assume the banister could be climbed at half speed (a 50% reduction)? How hard should it be to glide down it? I'm abandoning this line as I don't think the speed of the glide should be influenced by the glider's own movement speed, though.
So we're back to falling, but the slope also makes Climbing relevant, especially with the "slope too steep to walk" rules. It uses "slopes" of less than 60 degrees and walls of more than 60 degrees - a banister should be less.
So we have falling, climbing and acrobatics to consider. I'd say Gliding is more Acrobatic than Climbing - you're not trying to avoid gravity, but use it to your advantage. Softening a fall seems the appropriate check, so I will suggest that being able to use a slope (defined as "less than 60 degrees", same as climbing) to glide down (skiing, skateboard, wagon or sliding down the banister) requires a DC 10 acrobatics check to reduce the first 10' to "no damage" and the next 10' to non-lethal. Further, a better check can enhance your success - every 5 you succeed by gives you another 10' with no damage, and another 10' non-lethal. "No damage" means you land standing up. So our Acrobat needs a DC 15 check to take no damage and arrive on his feet. Legolas can likely take 10 (and given he seemed to have no problem with stunts like this, I'm fine with that).
Taking advantage of this on a narrow footing also require a balance check for that surface. So, DC 17 balance check (2-6", slightly sloped), also Take 10 for Legolas, is also required. No penalty for full speed or polish as he's not moving under his own power (nor is he moving his feet to take steps). No penalty for the polish - in this case, a penalty should apply if it's not smooth and polished (say, sliding down the stairs instead).
Now, is he flat footed with no DEX bonus? It only matters if someone can take a shot on him while he glides down the banister, so maybe it's not an issue. But I'm going to suggest that, by default, you lose your DEX bonus and are flat footed. In order to give the swashbucklers the benefit of the doubt, however, I will suggest that a +5 to the DC lets him keep his DEX bonus and avoid being flat footed (I waffle to +10, but the only penalty for climb or acrobatics that hits that level is acrobatics in an earthquake, so again - benefit of the doubt to the heroes).
How long does it take? Normally, a fall of 500 feet or less happens before you can cast a non-immediate spell, so I'd call the slide down the banister a move action (he has to nimbly leap to the banister and leap off at the end, plus recover his bearings).
So, pretty easy for the guy with high Acrobatics? The balance check and slide down will be trivial. The slide down will as well, and he can keep his DEX bonus on a Take 10 if he has +10 to Acrobatics. Pretty easy. But it didn't seem hard for a skilled acrobatic character in the movie. The same bonus lets a character reliably walk a tightrope, leap 20' forward or 5' straight up, or climb a dungeon wall, so this seems a reasonable bar to set for a cool use of acrobatics.
His being flat footed with no DEX bonus while sliding down the banister, if we apply the acrobatics rules precisely, may be a greater concern. this, and halved movement, also does not seem consistent with the source material where Our Hero seems to glide down the banister quite nimbly. BTW, +5 to the DC would let him move at full speed on a narrow surface.
Perhaps another approach is to consider sliding down the banister an action similar to falling. The character is not "walking a tightrope" to balance on the banister, as the balancing check would apply. Rather, he is using the banister to "fall" from the top of the stairs to the bottom of the stairs in a controlled manner, with some horizontal movement added in.
So how high is the staircase? Maybe 20 feet? A DC 15 Acrobatics check would allow the character to jump off the stairs and fall 20', taking 1d6 nonlethal damage. Perhaps adding in a means of slowing the fall, such as sliding down the banister (or rolling down a hill) should modify the falling rules. That kind of thing seems to happen a lot without the source material characters being seriously injured. so perhaps it increases the distance which can be fallen with no, and with non-lethal, damage.
Another rule to look at - terrain. The banister could be viewed as just another form of terrain, with the advantage that sliding down it can enhance, rather than decrease, movement. If climbing up the banister is considered "difficult terrain", it halves movement, just like climbing would if you took a -5 penalty - as you're climbing a slope, that would make the DC 5. So let's assume the banister could be climbed at half speed (a 50% reduction)? How hard should it be to glide down it? I'm abandoning this line as I don't think the speed of the glide should be influenced by the glider's own movement speed, though.
So we're back to falling, but the slope also makes Climbing relevant, especially with the "slope too steep to walk" rules. It uses "slopes" of less than 60 degrees and walls of more than 60 degrees - a banister should be less.
So we have falling, climbing and acrobatics to consider. I'd say Gliding is more Acrobatic than Climbing - you're not trying to avoid gravity, but use it to your advantage. Softening a fall seems the appropriate check, so I will suggest that being able to use a slope (defined as "less than 60 degrees", same as climbing) to glide down (skiing, skateboard, wagon or sliding down the banister) requires a DC 10 acrobatics check to reduce the first 10' to "no damage" and the next 10' to non-lethal. Further, a better check can enhance your success - every 5 you succeed by gives you another 10' with no damage, and another 10' non-lethal. "No damage" means you land standing up. So our Acrobat needs a DC 15 check to take no damage and arrive on his feet. Legolas can likely take 10 (and given he seemed to have no problem with stunts like this, I'm fine with that).
Taking advantage of this on a narrow footing also require a balance check for that surface. So, DC 17 balance check (2-6", slightly sloped), also Take 10 for Legolas, is also required. No penalty for full speed or polish as he's not moving under his own power (nor is he moving his feet to take steps). No penalty for the polish - in this case, a penalty should apply if it's not smooth and polished (say, sliding down the stairs instead).
Now, is he flat footed with no DEX bonus? It only matters if someone can take a shot on him while he glides down the banister, so maybe it's not an issue. But I'm going to suggest that, by default, you lose your DEX bonus and are flat footed. In order to give the swashbucklers the benefit of the doubt, however, I will suggest that a +5 to the DC lets him keep his DEX bonus and avoid being flat footed (I waffle to +10, but the only penalty for climb or acrobatics that hits that level is acrobatics in an earthquake, so again - benefit of the doubt to the heroes).
How long does it take? Normally, a fall of 500 feet or less happens before you can cast a non-immediate spell, so I'd call the slide down the banister a move action (he has to nimbly leap to the banister and leap off at the end, plus recover his bearings).
So, pretty easy for the guy with high Acrobatics? The balance check and slide down will be trivial. The slide down will as well, and he can keep his DEX bonus on a Take 10 if he has +10 to Acrobatics. Pretty easy. But it didn't seem hard for a skilled acrobatic character in the movie. The same bonus lets a character reliably walk a tightrope, leap 20' forward or 5' straight up, or climb a dungeon wall, so this seems a reasonable bar to set for a cool use of acrobatics.
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