She's supposed to have predicted the future. She doesn't make it happen. She just foresees that it will.
You've correctly and succinctly outlined my quandary.
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D&D 5E Slightly confused about Curse of Strahd
- Thread starter Morrus
- Start date
She's supposed to have predicted the future. She doesn't make it happen. She just foresees that it will.
You've correctly and succinctly outlined my quandary.
Here's my current plan:
- Dinner in the dining hall. Strahd will be there, courteous, major social encounter. He will answer questions and the like. Invite them to stay the night and then leave.
- They'll discover they cannot leave. Will no doubt start exploring the castle.
- They'll discover the chapel very quickly, as it's so close to the entrance. The reading says Strahd is there. Somehow a fight will probably break out. Given that they just left him in the dining room, this is going to feel a bit cheesy. Especially when they beat him down easily and he flees. I guess that technically fulfils the tarrokka, but then if they are going meet him repeatedly in multiple rooms, the tarokka was going to be right whatever room was drawn!
- I'll also beef up the heart; while it's there he's going to be nigh invincible. They will *have* to destroy that first. The "enemy of stand" reading was the ghost in Argynvosthold, so I might make him key to destroying the heart in some way.
I still feel I'm kinda cheating the card reading, but otherwise there's no adventure.
- Dinner in the dining hall. Strahd will be there, courteous, major social encounter. He will answer questions and the like. Invite them to stay the night and then leave.
- They'll discover they cannot leave. Will no doubt start exploring the castle.
- They'll discover the chapel very quickly, as it's so close to the entrance. The reading says Strahd is there. Somehow a fight will probably break out. Given that they just left him in the dining room, this is going to feel a bit cheesy. Especially when they beat him down easily and he flees. I guess that technically fulfils the tarrokka, but then if they are going meet him repeatedly in multiple rooms, the tarokka was going to be right whatever room was drawn!
- I'll also beef up the heart; while it's there he's going to be nigh invincible. They will *have* to destroy that first. The "enemy of stand" reading was the ghost in Argynvosthold, so I might make him key to destroying the heart in some way.
I still feel I'm kinda cheating the card reading, but otherwise there's no adventure.
Charles Rampant
Explorer
My party met Strahd in the chapel. It went fairly anti-climatically. I decided not to beef him up, in part because the party paladin wasn't all that tactical with his choices. The story of the campaign up to that point meant that Strahd had invited them to his wedding to Ireena, who he had already turned into a Vampire (the players essentially failed a time pressure). So they got into the carriage, rolled into the castle, and met Rahadin the seneschal. Him, they did not like much, especially since he didn't rise to their jokes. One player got freaked out as he led them down the long corridor to the chapel, and tried stabbing him in the back. This turned into a fight that Rahadin started losing, so he fled into the Chapel... where Strahd was standing, along with four Vampire Spawn, the Vampirified Ireena, and the partly-vampirified Ezmerelda. They didn't even stop to talk to him, but instead rolled the fight straight into that chamber.
So first off my desire to have a creepy but fun 'vampire wedding' was totally scuppered, and now the players were facing half of the castle's residents at once. You'd think that would be a real problem? Well, no. Vampire Spawn are basically eliminated automatically by the combination of the Sunsword (disadvantage on attack, 20hp damage at start of turn, no regen) and a level four Spirit Guardians (4d8 radiant damage at start of turn, or when first entering). I tried to counter this by having Strahd use Charm on the Paladin, who was not immune, in order to get him to 'turn off the sword and give it to me', but the Paladin easily passed the save. For his Lair Action, he tried turning the Shadow Monk's shadow into an enemy, which I thought would be pretty fun, but the Monk passed the save. The players all rolled straight up to him, and started whaling on him with the Sunsword, Sacred Flame, Stunning Fist, the whole works. I decided that he could use Charm as a Legendary Action, but to be fair it would cost all three; the Paladin passed again. On the second turn, he used a Lair Action to get the ability to walk through walls... but was dead before his turn came around.
The Sunsword is basically the killer. Because it does radiant damage, Strahd's misty escape ability does not work. He is instantly destroyed if in sunlight. So he went poof, and the adventure ended with the players having encountered two rooms and killing the BBEG in one and a half rounds of combat. I was not too unhappy with that, since it meant that we ended the campaign on the last game before Christmas, nice timing, but Castle Ravenloft was not exactly all that it could have been.
I recommend not having Strahd stay glued in the Chapel. He absolutely needs to run from the players upon seeing them, and attack them while they are engaged with other enemies; I thought that he would be more impressive than he was, but ultimately the module gives you a great villain but also gives the players the exact tools to annihilate him without breaking a sweat. My players were level nine at the time, so your ones will be even more powerful.
So first off my desire to have a creepy but fun 'vampire wedding' was totally scuppered, and now the players were facing half of the castle's residents at once. You'd think that would be a real problem? Well, no. Vampire Spawn are basically eliminated automatically by the combination of the Sunsword (disadvantage on attack, 20hp damage at start of turn, no regen) and a level four Spirit Guardians (4d8 radiant damage at start of turn, or when first entering). I tried to counter this by having Strahd use Charm on the Paladin, who was not immune, in order to get him to 'turn off the sword and give it to me', but the Paladin easily passed the save. For his Lair Action, he tried turning the Shadow Monk's shadow into an enemy, which I thought would be pretty fun, but the Monk passed the save. The players all rolled straight up to him, and started whaling on him with the Sunsword, Sacred Flame, Stunning Fist, the whole works. I decided that he could use Charm as a Legendary Action, but to be fair it would cost all three; the Paladin passed again. On the second turn, he used a Lair Action to get the ability to walk through walls... but was dead before his turn came around.
The Sunsword is basically the killer. Because it does radiant damage, Strahd's misty escape ability does not work. He is instantly destroyed if in sunlight. So he went poof, and the adventure ended with the players having encountered two rooms and killing the BBEG in one and a half rounds of combat. I was not too unhappy with that, since it meant that we ended the campaign on the last game before Christmas, nice timing, but Castle Ravenloft was not exactly all that it could have been.
I recommend not having Strahd stay glued in the Chapel. He absolutely needs to run from the players upon seeing them, and attack them while they are engaged with other enemies; I thought that he would be more impressive than he was, but ultimately the module gives you a great villain but also gives the players the exact tools to annihilate him without breaking a sweat. My players were level nine at the time, so your ones will be even more powerful.
I'm with @DEFCON 1 on this. They can have their giant final battle with him there, but it doesn't mean he needs to be defeated there. My group is supposed to meet him in Sergei's Tomb, and they will. They'll also find him in several other places around the castle before they get there. It's just that that location is where he finally "snaps" as it were, decides enough is enough with these pesky Outsiders, and attacks. Assuming they defeat him, he'll mist form out the door to his own tomb to regenerate. Assuming (again) the PCs follow him, they can fend off the Brides while someone deals with the body in the coffin. But once he's in his tomb, there's not much fight left in him. They "Faced" Strahd at Sergei's tomb.
The concern about them finding the chapel too early is legit though. There's no need or opportunity to explore the rest of the castle if that's the first room they walk into. If the waves of enemies idea doesn't suit you, another option might be a "hide and seek" game, with some play-it-by-ear thrown in. Perhaps when they walk in, Strahd is up on the balcony. After talking with them for a bit, he makes a comment about "you didn't think it would be so easy as that, did you?" and leaves out the back door. Then they have to chase him around the castle, softening the PCs up along the way, only to have him eventually lead them back to the chapel. "Fine then, if Fate ordains that we meet in battle in this place, let's get to it." Something like that might extend the encounter and let them experience some of the rest of the castle, while still holding true to your card reading.
And if you don't want to do the escape-to-the-tomb option, let them back him onto the altar before the final blow. Something about the goodness of the altar keeps him from mist-forming, and he turns to ash on it's surface. Deed done. Plus you get the bonus irony of killing a evil guy on a good altar, instead of the other way around.
On another note, 7 x level 10 PCs with the artifacts are going to make mincemeat out of him. You might consider having allies present (Rahadin, Escher, etc), and making full use of his summoning abilities and lair actions.
Let us know how it goes! We're only a couple games away from facing Strahd ourselves, so the cinematics of that are on my mind as well.
edit: ninja'ed by a few other people while I was typing this...
The concern about them finding the chapel too early is legit though. There's no need or opportunity to explore the rest of the castle if that's the first room they walk into. If the waves of enemies idea doesn't suit you, another option might be a "hide and seek" game, with some play-it-by-ear thrown in. Perhaps when they walk in, Strahd is up on the balcony. After talking with them for a bit, he makes a comment about "you didn't think it would be so easy as that, did you?" and leaves out the back door. Then they have to chase him around the castle, softening the PCs up along the way, only to have him eventually lead them back to the chapel. "Fine then, if Fate ordains that we meet in battle in this place, let's get to it." Something like that might extend the encounter and let them experience some of the rest of the castle, while still holding true to your card reading.
And if you don't want to do the escape-to-the-tomb option, let them back him onto the altar before the final blow. Something about the goodness of the altar keeps him from mist-forming, and he turns to ash on it's surface. Deed done. Plus you get the bonus irony of killing a evil guy on a good altar, instead of the other way around.
On another note, 7 x level 10 PCs with the artifacts are going to make mincemeat out of him. You might consider having allies present (Rahadin, Escher, etc), and making full use of his summoning abilities and lair actions.
Let us know how it goes! We're only a couple games away from facing Strahd ourselves, so the cinematics of that are on my mind as well.
edit: ninja'ed by a few other people while I was typing this...
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MrHotter
First Post
If the players are ready for Strahd you could just let them fight him. If not, you can close off the ground floor entrances to the chapel so the party has to enter from upstairs.
If the party has the sunsword and holy symbol, there is a good chance that Strahd won't be able to escape the encounter. Look at the skills of the players and make sure you make the encounter memorable. I would not have him sitting there by himself so that everyone can gang up on him. If the party can take out his protectors in other parts of the castle, that could be another reason not to go right to the end fight.
A decoy vampire wearing Strahd's armor is a great way to get the party to waste their best spells in the first round. The nightmare, Rahadin, Strahd's animated armor, summoned bats, and his vampire spawn should give a DM plenty to work with.
Remember, the nightmare can carry up to three people into the ethereal plane, so Strahd could be above the players in the ethereal plane with Rahadin and a vampire spawn when the fight starts.
I plan on letting either Strahd (or his decoy) wear the animated armor and split the damage between the armor and the wearer. I'm also going to let the wearer get the armors resistances/immunities and have the armor get them to safety if they get paralyzed.
If the party has the sunsword and holy symbol, there is a good chance that Strahd won't be able to escape the encounter. Look at the skills of the players and make sure you make the encounter memorable. I would not have him sitting there by himself so that everyone can gang up on him. If the party can take out his protectors in other parts of the castle, that could be another reason not to go right to the end fight.
A decoy vampire wearing Strahd's armor is a great way to get the party to waste their best spells in the first round. The nightmare, Rahadin, Strahd's animated armor, summoned bats, and his vampire spawn should give a DM plenty to work with.
Remember, the nightmare can carry up to three people into the ethereal plane, so Strahd could be above the players in the ethereal plane with Rahadin and a vampire spawn when the fight starts.
I plan on letting either Strahd (or his decoy) wear the animated armor and split the damage between the armor and the wearer. I'm also going to let the wearer get the armors resistances/immunities and have the armor get them to safety if they get paralyzed.
CapnZapp
Legend
I second the sentiment that the adventure really should have provided a "default reading" right in the hardcover. Most of us won't run the module more than once for any given player (or more than once period) - the fun factor of the randomness is completely lost upon many customers I believe.
If you only run such a large adventure once, it's borderline criminal to leave central elements up to chance. The risk of getting bad, wonky or ill-fitting results should be eliminated for the DM who's just looking for a quick start.
That doesn't mean the full, random, reading rules can't be present too.
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As for the Strahd interaction:
If I ever run the module I will invent ways for the players to visit and interact with Strahd, as well as exploring the castle, before they're in full vampire-staking mode.
Once the characters have the levels and the magic items they need to get rid of the vampire, the time for niceties and games are over, and the module should reflect that.
I would definitely add a grand ball to which the characters get invited (Dance of the Vampyres style). Then they explore the castle only to experience its horrors. The point is that they should at this time still be low enough level not to be able to "complete" the castle, and certainly low enough level for Strahd to not even consider them a threat.
Once they're 10th level, Strahd will know he can't defeat the heroes in a straight fight. That is why he should lead them on a merry chase through the remainder of the castle, hoping its traps and inhabitants will slow them down, so he can have a final stand before they find his coffin.
Since I would definitely use feats and multiclassing, I would not hesitate tripling Strahd's heart hp buffer. As his stats stand, they're only good for a feat-less game featuring relatively uncoordinated players.
If you only run such a large adventure once, it's borderline criminal to leave central elements up to chance. The risk of getting bad, wonky or ill-fitting results should be eliminated for the DM who's just looking for a quick start.
That doesn't mean the full, random, reading rules can't be present too.
---
As for the Strahd interaction:
If I ever run the module I will invent ways for the players to visit and interact with Strahd, as well as exploring the castle, before they're in full vampire-staking mode.
Once the characters have the levels and the magic items they need to get rid of the vampire, the time for niceties and games are over, and the module should reflect that.
I would definitely add a grand ball to which the characters get invited (Dance of the Vampyres style). Then they explore the castle only to experience its horrors. The point is that they should at this time still be low enough level not to be able to "complete" the castle, and certainly low enough level for Strahd to not even consider them a threat.
Once they're 10th level, Strahd will know he can't defeat the heroes in a straight fight. That is why he should lead them on a merry chase through the remainder of the castle, hoping its traps and inhabitants will slow them down, so he can have a final stand before they find his coffin.
Since I would definitely use feats and multiclassing, I would not hesitate tripling Strahd's heart hp buffer. As his stats stand, they're only good for a feat-less game featuring relatively uncoordinated players.
Jester David
Hero
Strahd, like most 5e vampires, are a little weak. IIRC he has the hit points of a CR 8 creature. Which can work if you're not built to fight vampires, but for the climax of Curse of Strahd and against a party equipped especially for fighting him, he's going to down like a chump.
First, I'd have an NPC of the party point out that if Strahd is "defeated" he'll return to his coffin. So facing him early just means weakening the party before they explore the rest of the castle. And next time, he'll know what abilities they have and how they'll attack.
Second, if they do attack, Strahd uses a body double. He sits invisible and hidden in the shadows of the chapel while a vampire mook dressed in his robe takes the hits from him for a round, while he positions himself behind the party. The party wastes their big guns on the mook then Strahd moves in for the kills. And likely gets facerolled. But it's *slightly* more memorable.
As another option, this could be the villain meeting. The parlay.
If you think the party has not interacted with Strahd directly nearly enough, then it just so happens to be a holy day and the chapel is filled with a strange holy energy, that acts as a calm emotions. Strahd says he will not attack if they don't and offers a temporary truce for 10 minutes (or so). He offers them one last chance to join him or die, or tempts members of the party with life eternal.
If they refuse, he politely tells them they parlay is over, the next time they meet he will kill them, and then mists away.
Correct me if I'm wrong, and since I haven't really read through CoS too much (skimmed through it a few times looking for individual things), but if you're already planning on having them meet him somewhere else, is there any reason you couldn't start the fight somewhere else? The reading is about the final battle with Strahd, right? It doesn't magically lock him in there, it just determines the choice Strahd makes at the time to have his last stand there, correct? If that's the case, can't you just rework it that the fight takes place across the entire castle with the finale occurring in the chapel?
So, they're going to meet him in the dining room, have a bit of social, and then be otherwise compelled to explore the castle? You could use leading encounters (have a creature flee to the next area you want them to explore type of thing) to drag them around the castle, hordes of undead to block off areas you don't want them going, things like that. 7 party members is a lot, is there any way you can force the party to split? You could then bounce each group around the castle in a series of weaker encounters (if you can split the group into groups of 3 and 4, or 2, 2, and 3, then you can always use skeletons, zombies, ghasts, and ghouls to drive the party around the castle without them feeling like you're trying to kill them by splitting them up, it would feel more like a haunted house ride) and have them have the goal of trying to meet back up. Again, I could be wrong, but isn't the castle itself a product of the mists, and so doesn't have to actually follow a logical progression? The mists creep in through open windows and from hidden chambers and whatnot, slowly filling the room as they fight weak monsters, they move to the next area and suddenly are somewhere entirely different. With a party of 7 I imagine you have at least 2 stealth characters right? Maybe you can find out what everyone's passive perceptions and investigate checks would be, and pull the ol' DM note trick to try and lure them away from the group, sending them on a stealth mission while the rest of the party assumes Strahd has done something to them and they search the castle for them.
Ultimately, it seems like you're trying to think of a solid reason to delay the final confrontation, and you want at least some of the encounter to range across the castle eventually ending in the chapel as the cards "predicted" (actually, dictate, but that's the metagame). Strahd can mist at will IIRC, where he effectively becomes immune to most damage and can then escape through cracks in the wall, open windows, chimneys, locked doors, etc. Couldn't you find a way to lead the party to the various event sites you're looking to run, and if it is reasonable that they would encounter and fight strahd at those moments, let them. He takes a round of hits and then mists and regens while he runs anywhere else in the castle. Skeletons and Zombies are gonna go down quick, eat up actions, can come pouring out of anywhere (they're undead, Strahd could have had them buried in the floors and walls and they burst out when he mentally commands them. 5th edition strahd is kind of weak, so a bit of DM fiat flare could be just the thing to spice him up for you (IIRC another poster before the forum crash had mentioned Strahd got one-rounded by a fairly low level party, you've got 7 PCs who could potentially nova the crap out of him).
I would suggest improvising some interesting ways to separate the party, and move them to the places you want around the castle with weak enemies, blocking areas with hordes, and having some more intelligent creatures who would know to run when outnumbered to drag the party behind them. I don't think anything, in this instance, would be wrong with you throwing out a dozen or so zombies and skeletons with a couple tougher creatures (maybe a vampire spawn or something, a solo creature that can take a few swings before it dies, living long enough to pull the players into another area) at the main group, and as they wade through the undead, you pass notes to players asking them to make some saves/checks, if they fail they fall through a pit trap through the mists and awaken in another part of the castle. Chase them back together, have them confront strahd, he flees to areas they haven't been yet that you want them to go to, and then finally to the chapel for the final curtain.
Again, this could all be based on faulty assumptions, so, take it with a grain of salt. I didn't think there was really all that much to do in the castle other than some other fights, so maybe you don't want to split them too much, but leading encounters, shifting the castle around, and gloat-and-float tactics from Strahd could let you burn through the party's resources before the big fight and make it at least a little bit more challenging than he would otherwise be against a 7 character strong party.
*predicted was predicated... -_-
So, they're going to meet him in the dining room, have a bit of social, and then be otherwise compelled to explore the castle? You could use leading encounters (have a creature flee to the next area you want them to explore type of thing) to drag them around the castle, hordes of undead to block off areas you don't want them going, things like that. 7 party members is a lot, is there any way you can force the party to split? You could then bounce each group around the castle in a series of weaker encounters (if you can split the group into groups of 3 and 4, or 2, 2, and 3, then you can always use skeletons, zombies, ghasts, and ghouls to drive the party around the castle without them feeling like you're trying to kill them by splitting them up, it would feel more like a haunted house ride) and have them have the goal of trying to meet back up. Again, I could be wrong, but isn't the castle itself a product of the mists, and so doesn't have to actually follow a logical progression? The mists creep in through open windows and from hidden chambers and whatnot, slowly filling the room as they fight weak monsters, they move to the next area and suddenly are somewhere entirely different. With a party of 7 I imagine you have at least 2 stealth characters right? Maybe you can find out what everyone's passive perceptions and investigate checks would be, and pull the ol' DM note trick to try and lure them away from the group, sending them on a stealth mission while the rest of the party assumes Strahd has done something to them and they search the castle for them.
Ultimately, it seems like you're trying to think of a solid reason to delay the final confrontation, and you want at least some of the encounter to range across the castle eventually ending in the chapel as the cards "predicted" (actually, dictate, but that's the metagame). Strahd can mist at will IIRC, where he effectively becomes immune to most damage and can then escape through cracks in the wall, open windows, chimneys, locked doors, etc. Couldn't you find a way to lead the party to the various event sites you're looking to run, and if it is reasonable that they would encounter and fight strahd at those moments, let them. He takes a round of hits and then mists and regens while he runs anywhere else in the castle. Skeletons and Zombies are gonna go down quick, eat up actions, can come pouring out of anywhere (they're undead, Strahd could have had them buried in the floors and walls and they burst out when he mentally commands them. 5th edition strahd is kind of weak, so a bit of DM fiat flare could be just the thing to spice him up for you (IIRC another poster before the forum crash had mentioned Strahd got one-rounded by a fairly low level party, you've got 7 PCs who could potentially nova the crap out of him).
I would suggest improvising some interesting ways to separate the party, and move them to the places you want around the castle with weak enemies, blocking areas with hordes, and having some more intelligent creatures who would know to run when outnumbered to drag the party behind them. I don't think anything, in this instance, would be wrong with you throwing out a dozen or so zombies and skeletons with a couple tougher creatures (maybe a vampire spawn or something, a solo creature that can take a few swings before it dies, living long enough to pull the players into another area) at the main group, and as they wade through the undead, you pass notes to players asking them to make some saves/checks, if they fail they fall through a pit trap through the mists and awaken in another part of the castle. Chase them back together, have them confront strahd, he flees to areas they haven't been yet that you want them to go to, and then finally to the chapel for the final curtain.
Again, this could all be based on faulty assumptions, so, take it with a grain of salt. I didn't think there was really all that much to do in the castle other than some other fights, so maybe you don't want to split them too much, but leading encounters, shifting the castle around, and gloat-and-float tactics from Strahd could let you burn through the party's resources before the big fight and make it at least a little bit more challenging than he would otherwise be against a 7 character strong party.
*predicted was predicated... -_-
dave2008
Legend
FYI, I posted an updated version on 12/15/16. It is not a lot different, but he has the ability to summon his armor and sword. I thought this would be fun mid battle when things are looking bad he summon his armor and sword to bump his AC (21) and do some more damage with the great sword. I also wabted to give him some maneuvers, but his stat block is already long.
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