Smudged printing, and should I even bother?

[vagabundo]

If your a player:
PHB, Adventurer's Vault, & Monster Manual

If DM:
PHB, DMG, & Monster Manual

Why the Monster Manual if your a player?

I'd suggest the PHBII instead for the third book, rather than the MM. That should give you a range of classes to play.

 

[delericho]

Why the Monster Manual if your a player?

Yeah, I have to echo this. In 3e, there was justification for players having their own MM, since it was common for Wizards to summon creatures, druids to shapechange into various forms, or (to a lesser extent) for players to run PCs of 'monster' races.

In 4e, with the core 3 books only, there is no summoning or shapechanging to speak of, and the use of monster races is limited to a very small number of options that are not recommended anyway.

So, really, a player having a 4e MM seems, at best, wasteful.

 

[Thanee]

Core Gift Set + Adventurer's Vault (it's just two... err... items ).

The core rules are, even though the game is designed to be open for expansions, as complete as you would need them. I havn't really noticed any lack in there, yet. They even have gnomes (in the MM)!

You can play Magic: the Gathering with nothing but the first set just fine as well (I'm sure if you couldn't it would hardly have the success it had, because it would have been a pretty pointless game to begin with back then ).

If you want some specific classes, you might be out of luck, but the core selection of eight classes is definitely enough to play the game.

Only the magic item section, while also ok, could need a bit more, hence the recommendation of Adventurer's Vault, which adds plenty enough to round up the selection. Of course, you could think those up yourself, as well.

I don't think you need more than those (even AV might not be necessary) to have fun with 4E.


Of course, you could also go with one of those one-book-games out there, which are very enjoyable as well, like Savage Worlds. If you prefer a condensed rules set.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Darkwolf71]

You can play Magic: the Gathering with nothing but the first set just fine as well (I'm sure if you couldn't it would hardly have the success it had, because it would have been a pretty pointless game to begin with back then ).

Bye
Thanee

Ah, but therein lies the real issue. You certainly can play with just the base deck, but if you are playing vs. anyone with expansions you will not do well, and you will be hard pressed to find other players that will 'handicap' themselves to play with you.

Now, granted with D&D you aren't playing a competetive game so it's not a matter of being beaten by other players, but they will certainly 'outshine' you and your 'base' caracter. At least that is my concern. Won't be able to say for sure either way until at least late next year. Honestly if they can keep Power Creep in check and in a year or two you can play a strictly PHB I character and do well in a party of Expansion Book characters, I will be mightily impressed.

 

[Jhaelen]

So, should I even bother getting 4E? CCGs out there (like Magic) basically rely on you constantly buying new product. If 4th Ed is set up in a similar fashion, then it means it'll be a waste of money for me.

I think it's safe to say that if you've been able to resist buying any supplements in 3E, you'll also be able to resist buying them for 4E.

Also, if I do ask for the books, should I ask for the giftset or not? I seem to recall hearing something about the books smudging, but I can't seem to find any solid information about it. But I thought it was giftset books that were experiencing this. Is it true and if so, are the individual books immune to this or does it affect all the printings?

The first printing indeed has this problem. I bought the gift set but I don't think buying them individually will be different.
Since none of the 4E supplements I've bought suffered from the problem, I'd assume later printings of the three core books shouldn't have that problem.

 

[Thanee]

Ah, but therein lies the real issue. You certainly can play with just the base deck, but if you are playing vs. anyone with expansions you will not do well...

Certainly, but that doesn't matter if noone has access to the expansions, which would be the general assumption here.

In the M:tG analogy I was speaking of the time, when only the base set was available, BTW.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Mixmaster]

I think it's safe to say that if you've been able to resist buying any supplements in 3E, you'll also be able to resist buying them for 4E.
The first printing indeed has this problem. I bought the gift set but I don't think buying them individually will be different.
Since none of the 4E supplements I've bought suffered from the problem, I'd assume later printings of the three core books shouldn't have that problem.

Exactly.

My PHB that was one of the 1st bought had this issue. The two I bought later for my wife and a friend were fine.

 

[timbannock]

Why the Monster Manual if your a player?

I'd suggest the PHBII instead for the third book, rather than the MM. That should give you a range of classes to play.

Seconded (or thirded by this point).

I've never before played an RPG that I felt was so easily worked in an angle that is either Player-centric or DM-centric. If you're a player, you need never look at the MM or DMG or any of those types of books. If you're a DM, the PHB is worthwhile, but you'll never need any of the other PHBs or [campaign setting] Player's Guide books or anything like that.

I know it's a case of unexplainable urges, but in 3e I felt like I was in a losing arms race as the DM, constantly having to upgrade and get books my players used as well as adventures and so on. I got burnt by that and stopped and never looked back. I've saved a lot of money with this new edition, but I feel like I have a "complete" set insofar as I'm concerned (of course it helps that I have a bajillion adventures and setting books from all eras of D&D).

 

[mach1.9pants]

The DMG is great for newbie DM's but actually contains very little crunch. If you are happy DM'ing (and are willing to wing what little you will miss out on) I would give the DMG a miss. Only buy AV if you want LOADS of magic items, a campaign guide only if you haven't got an older version you can adjust. Monster Manual if you DM. So IMO:

You can game easy with just the PHB and MM. There is more than enough there.

If providing for just yourself as a player: PHB, AV, PHB2 (when it comes)
If providing for a DM and players: PHB, MM + MM2/PHB2 (when they come; depending on whether you want more classes for the players or more monsters for the DM)

Give it a try.

 

[Harlekin]

Ah, but therein lies the real issue. You certainly can play with just the base deck, but if you are playing vs. anyone with expansions you will not do well, and you will be hard pressed to find other players that will 'handicap' themselves to play with you.

Now, granted with D&D you aren't playing a competetive game so it's not a matter of being beaten by other players, but they will certainly 'outshine' you and your 'base' caracter. At least that is my concern. Won't be able to say for sure either way until at least late next year. Honestly if they can keep Power Creep in check and in a year or two you can play a strictly PHB I character and do well in a party of Expansion Book characters, I will be mightily impressed.

Tangent: Most of the really broken card ever were in this first set. A deck built only of the first set containing all the jewelery, the blue powercards and double lands will be mightily competitive today and actually blow everything limited to cards from the last 4 years out of the water.

To the OP: I'm presently limiting access to items outside of the core books, simply because there are plenty of options in those core books and I want to explore those before branching out. You could easily play years with only the options in those books. The claim that 4th was designed to need supplements is unsubstantiated.