Sneak Attack and Touch Spells

[Kwitchit]

If sneak attacking and delivering a touch spell with the same attack, do you do sneak attack damage if you hit the target's Touch AC or only if you hit their normal AC? Also, I assume that unless the character has Improved Unarmed Strike, the sneak attack deals non-lethal damage? What if the spell deals lethal damage?

Examples: Bob is a Human Rogue/Wizard with 2d6 Sneak Attack, Str 10 and CL 7. He is in a position to sneak attack an Ogre. He casts Bestow Curse, then punches the Ogre, rolling a 17 on his attack (enough to hit its normal AC). I take it the spell goes off, and he does 2d6+d3 nonlethal damage for the sneak-attack punch.

What if the same thing happens, but this time he rolls a 12, hitting its Touch AC but not its normal AC? The spell still takes effect, but does he still do damage?

Another battle, Bob decides to cast Shocking Grasp on another Ogre from the same position. He hits with a 17. Does he do 5d6 electricity plus 2d6+d3 non-lethal, 7d6 electricity plus d3 non-lethal, 7d6+d3 electricity or something else?

What happens if he attacks with a Shocking Grasp sneak punch and rolls a 12?

 

[Aestolia]

When making a touch attack with a spell you are not counted as unarmed, sneak attack functions just as it does any other time. If they're denied their Dex bonus to AC or you're flanking, you get the sneak dice on top of your spell. If it was a ranged touch attack, they have to be within 30' in order for you to get the sneak dice.

When dealing a touch attack you don't add in your unarmed damage. You can Choose to make a touch attack with an unarmed attack if you wish, but you would have to beat their normal AC for the spell (and sneak attack) to take effect.

If you were to make an unarmed strike to deliver a touch spell and you did not have Imp unarmed strike, they would get an attack of opportunity, you would have to beat their normal AC, in this case since you're making the attack with an unarmed strike that deals non lethal damage, the sneak dice would also be non-lethal damage, spell would go off as normal.

 

[UltimaGabe]

If sneak attacking and delivering a touch spell with the same attack, do you do sneak attack damage if you hit the target's Touch AC or only if you hit their normal AC? Also, I assume that unless the character has Improved Unarmed Strike, the sneak attack deals non-lethal damage? What if the spell deals lethal damage?

Examples: Bob is a Human Rogue/Wizard with 2d6 Sneak Attack, Str 10 and CL 7. He is in a position to sneak attack an Ogre. He casts Bestow Curse, then punches the Ogre, rolling a 17 on his attack (enough to hit its normal AC). I take it the spell goes off, and he does 2d6+d3 nonlethal damage for the sneak-attack punch.

What if the same thing happens, but this time he rolls a 12, hitting its Touch AC but not its normal AC? The spell still takes effect, but does he still do damage?

Another battle, Bob decides to cast Shocking Grasp on another Ogre from the same position. He hits with a 17. Does he do 5d6 electricity plus 2d6+d3 non-lethal, 7d6 electricity plus d3 non-lethal, 7d6+d3 electricity or something else?

What happens if he attacks with a Shocking Grasp sneak punch and rolls a 12?

First off, making a touch attack with a spell (sneak attack or no sneak attack) is completely different from making a regular unarmed attack with a spell on top of it (sneak attack or no sneak attack). Meaning, you can't roll to see if you hit, and go with whichever your roll would allow. If all you're doing is making a touch attack with the spell, and you roll way higher than their touch AC, you can't decide, "Okay, since I rolled so well, I'm gonna add in my unarmed damage." And if you're trying to attack with your fist with the added spell, and you roll low, you can't say, "Well, since I at least touched him, I'm gonna just apply the spell." The decision is made before you made the roll. This is especially important because making an unarmed attack with a spell on it provokes an attack of opportunity, unless you have Improved Unarmed Strike.

Let's say you're trying to Sneak Attack with a touch spell (like Shocking Grasp). Assuming you catch the enemy flat-footed, or are flanking your target, you just make a touch attack roll. Assuming you hit their touch AC, you deal the damage of the spell (in this case, electricity), PLUS the Sneak Attack damage (in this case, also electricity, since the spell is what's causing the Sneak Attack, and thus the Sneak Attack damage is that of the spell). Keep in mind, though, that this can only be done with spells that deal damage- Bestow Curse doesn't deal damage (at best it imposes a penalty), so it can't be used to Sneak Attack. But, assuming it deals damage, the Sneak Attack is the same type as the spell. Scorching Ray deals fire damage (though only to one of the rays), and even the lowly 0-level Ray of Frost can deal 9d6 Sneak Attack if cast by an 18th-level Rogue. In the case of spells that deal irregular damage types (that is, Ability Damage or Negative Levels, which are counted as damage for purposes of whether you can Sneak Attack with them), the additional damage from Sneak Attack is Negative Energy damage, not Ability Damage or additional negative levels. (So if a Shadow took levels in Rogue, and made a Sneak Attack with its Strength Drain ability, it would deal additional Negative Energy damage.)

Attacking with an unarmed strike is a completely different option (and in most cases a terrible choice). In that case, you make an actual attack roll (not a touch), and if you hit the target's AC (after they make an AoO if you don't have IUS), you deal your d3 nonlethal damage plus the spell's effect. If that was a Sneak Attack, the Sneak Attack is nonlethal damage, regardless of the spell.

Hope that helps!

 

[glass]

(So if a Shadow took levels in Rogue, and made a Sneak Attack with its Strength Drain ability, it would deal additional Negative Energy damage.)

Negative energy hit point damage, just to make everything crystal clear.

UltimaGabe was spot on with all his descriptions, but that middle paragraph was a long one and this could have been missed.


glass.

 

[Kwitchit]

Cheers. So a spell is an attack, and you can sneak attack with it- and the SA damage is like the spell's. But if you deliver a touch spell with an unarmed strike- or even an armed attack if you're a Rogue/Duskblade- the sneak attack is applied to the attack rather than the spell.

Makes sense now.

 

[Infiniti2000]

There's one mistake in the above descriptions, or perhaps an inadvertent exclusion, that you cannot execute an unarmed strike at the same time you cast a spell. The touch attack (ranged or melee) is part of the spell, but an unarmed strike is not. So, you'll either need to try the unarmed strike the following round or perhaps use a quickened spell.

 

[glass]

There's one mistake in the above descriptions, or perhaps an inadvertent exclusion, that you cannot execute an unarmed strike at the same time you cast a spell. The touch attack (ranged or melee) is part of the spell, but an unarmed strike is not. So, you'll either need to try the unarmed strike the following round or perhaps use a quickened spell.

You could in 3.0 (it was in one of the splats, so I guess it is technically optional). Actually, I don't recall seeing it in 3.5 though, so you might be right.


glass.