Sneak Attack Question

[BraveSirRobin]

Sorry if this has already been asked before but I have a couple of questions about when a thief's sneak attack can be used.

1. The PHB says an opponent can be sneak attacked if it is caught flatfooted. Latter on the book gives examples of when an opponent is flatfooted such as when the defendent is suprised or when the attacker is invisible. However it doesn't say anything about if the attacker is hiding in shadows. Note:Assume that the defender is in a combat situation with other members in the party.

2. A thief can also be sneak attacked if the defendent is being flanked by the thief. The PHB goes on to describe that you can flank a defender if you threaten it from the opposite side from your ally. The question is if you sneak attack with thrown weapons, like say a dagger, can you threaten it from a distance?

 

[Baron Von StarBlade]

For the most part no. Flanking is for melee weapons only.

The only exception to this rule would possibly be a Special Ability the Lasher Prestige class gets (From S&F) that allows them to threaten the area around them with their whip. . Of course now that I think about it that doesn't say you can Flank with a whip, it just states you can take AoO's within 5 feet of you.

I guess I'll have to go look this up when I get home.

 

[gfunk]

1. Remember that a Rogue needs a standard action to Hide and he can only do so if he is not being actively observed. However, if you attack from a Hide position then the defender gets to make an opposed Spot check. If he fails then your attack has effectively caught him flat-footed and you get your sneak attack bonus damage.

2. You cannot flank with ranged weapons (see DND FAQ).

 

[BraveSirRobin]

gfunk,

With regards to 1., is this still true if the defender is in combat with the rest of the party? Do they only loose their dex bonus to the thief? It would make sense that you could sneak attack a defender while they are engaged with others, it is just that the wording of the rules seem to not allow this.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

1. You can hide and sneak as part of you movement, so it is more of a move equivelent action than standard I'd say. Still you can't do it under observation without either bluff, getting out of sight, or hide in plain sight from the shadowdancer prestige class or something similar, or magic(use magic device scroll of x) But yes you can get sneak attacks with it. (shadowdancers with shot on the run can be brutal since they can while hiding move, shoot, move start hiding again.)

2. no not a ranged weapon, though you can flank with reach weapons I beleive. Exotic weapon proficiency spiked chain, for example.

 

[Shard O'Glase]

answering for gfunk, yes even if engaged or even if not engaged. If you are hidden you are effectively invisible to the defender. The sage etc. has confirmed this, it may be in the faq if you want to brave that.

 

[Nareau]

An important distinction

1. The PHB says an opponent can be sneak attacked if it is caught flatfooted. Latter on the book gives examples of when an opponent is flatfooted such as when the defendent is suprised or when the attacker is invisible.

This isn't really accurate. The PHB says an opponent can be sneak attacked if it is denied its dex bonus to AC with regards to the attacker. True, it is denied this dex bonus when it's flat-footed. But it is also denied its dex bonus in other situations. Being flat-footed is a very specific condition, and it has other effects (like not being able to take AOO's, etc.)
If your rogue is hiding during combat, and he charges the ogre with his dagger (from 20' away), the ogre will get an AOO against the rogue (as the ogre has reach). The ogre will be denied his dex bonus to AC, and the sneak attack can go through. If this same situation occured just before combat (the rogue using his surprise action to charge), the ogre won't get an AOO (as he's flat-footed).

 

[dr_nukem]

Wrong there spider... A rogue can only sneak attack from cover if his target is within his ranks in hide away from him.

So, if your rogue had 20 ranks in hide, then he could charge the ogre and his attack would be a sneak attack. Of course, since he's charging his hide would be at a -20 (or so) and this the ogre has a good chance of spotting him.

Please see the section in Song and Silence regarding Tailing someone...around P. 37.

Also, see these threads:
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9654
http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10146

 

[DM_Matt]

I believe that Order of the Bow Initiates eventually get to flank rangedly.

 

[Amrynn Moonshadow]

in the phb do they not mention lidda sneak attacking a troll with her crossbow ???