So did anyone buy Champions of Ruin?

[Nightfall]

So far since there's been no mention of Archfiends outside of Eltab and Mazilizad(sp), I'm not 100% sold on getting this. We'll see when I get around to checking out the new Barnes and Noble store that just opened in my area.

 

[Alzrius]

I'm still debating getting this or not. The stated reasons from Rich Baker for them making the Elder Eternal Evils so weak was, more or less, so as to make them attractive and valid targets for 20th level or so PCs.

That's...simply horrible. Seriously, it was this sort of thinking that made Imix a CR 14 creature in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, which was a farce.

Simply put, powerful monsters shouldn't be made a target for mere 20th level characters. Seriously, if Mask is a lesser deity, and he's afraid of Kezef, four 20th level mortals should be suicidal to think of fighting him. I swear, 3E did a great job powering up monsters of less than CR 20, but monsters over that were weakened.

 

[Nightfall]

Well in regular D&D sure.

But there are some that stand out to me.

ToH monsters over 20 were more than powerful

Book of Fiends revision of Ibilis made him exceptional powerful (though not 100% sure he's CR 45 worthy...)

But yeah most D&D/WotC monsters of 20 CR or higher...suck.

 

[Cold0]

Could someone post the general class features and requirements for the justice of weald and woe and the vengeance knight?

 

[Tharen the Damned]

maybe spoiler

Isn´t there a Dracolich around with CR 45 or higher (posted by S.K. Reynolds in his Dragons of Faerun column? That Critter would eat the whole bunch of elder Evils for Breakfast.

And, as mentioned before, Elmisnter could take on most of them (and put them into a Zoo maybe? To raise Funds for Half-Orc Urchins...).

Maybe they are called "eternal" because nobody bothered to kill them off?

 

[Felon]

Simply put, powerful monsters shouldn't be made a target for mere 20th level characters. Seriously, if Mask is a lesser deity, and he's afraid of Kezef, four 20th level mortals should be suicidal to think of fighting him. I swear, 3E did a great job powering up monsters of less than CR 20, but monsters over that were weakened.

"Mere" 20th-level characters? WTF are you people talking about?

Oh, wait, this is FR, so every tough foe has to be gauged against Elminster or one of the Seven Sisters, is that about it? A 20th-level character is sort of like a "mere" 1st-degree black belt or something?

From reading the posts, I'm not sure if you guys are botherred that the three big E's are weak for their assigned CR, or that you'rre bothered that their CR itself is too low.

 

[Sammael]

CRs are way too low. These are NOT beings that should be defeatable by mere mortals, regardless of their level.

 

[Belen]

Meh! The book is not on my list and neither the the other Champions book. They really seem like a waste to me or an excuse to reprint material for a quick sale.

The comments in this thread make me really not want to even crack open the book.

 

[kilamanjaro]

Very little material is reprinted. I think 4 feats are from the BoVD, but 2 are revised for 3.5, the other 2 are straight reprints.

 

[Cold0]

kilamanjaro, arnwyn,

Could you post some infos about the PrCs?

I just try to understand if the book is good enought for a non FR setting.

Thanx, anyway!