My player took your advice, and asked me to read all of this. Bad advice. Not a bad advice in general, but because he has been such a powerplayer that my other players have begged me to nerf him as the group is now totally unbalanced because of him.
When I asked the paladin what he felt it would take to be an oath-breaker, there was no answer, as his enemy was noone and everyone. Id like some suggestions from you
And yes, I just told a new player in the group.. he is a transmuter, that I want him to be aware that in my world the schools are like political parties in our world, working together behind closed doors, but officially and in public they are alienating oneanother, due to different understanding and ethics. As for him, he would loose his rep as an upstanding transmuter if caught casting abjuration spells. Limitations? Yes! For the better? According to many of you, and players like this paladin, no. But for some, they might actually like the idea, that wizardry is more than just spells. In my world of causiality, players are bound to the world they live in and interact with (RAI). And the way I read 5e paladin is that he/she rose from a context, with a purpose and an enmity, and was given/chose a cause. This cause is what gave him his powers... so im pretty sure 5e paladin RAW are crusaders like the previous versions, just with a bigger variation, like this LN Bane-paladin (actually Hoar). As he didnt answer to any institutionalized body, any cause, no crusade etc, and lack of emphasy on the religious part, I couldnt find any paladin left. I would be fine with a cause like Let there be freedom for love-poems, or any other weird "holy" crusade. But no. Nothing. I had nothing to work with as DM. And now this. Well.. this p..... me off.
Other than that, I agree with most of the comments
Cut some text for space reasons. Also, I guess thank you for coming into the discussion. BTW, writing this response while I’m reading, so I apologize if I double up on anything.
I agree it can be a little worrisome if you asked the paladin what would constitute breaking their oath, and they couldn’t think of any answer. For me, an oath of Vengeance would lose his powers if he ignored the innocent left in their wake. Part of the oath is the requirement to do something for the innocent hurt by their foes, because the paladin wasn’t there to stop them. Also, if they chose to ignore their enemy for personal gain.
The problem, from your end, is who is their declared enemy. I agree it can’t be “everyone”, but I’m not sure how limited it should be mechanically. I agree with the spirit of some of the comments that it makes little sense that the paladin can’t turn their divine fury on something committing atrocities now, because they weren’t the one committing atrocities back then. It’s a tough call.
As for the wizard, if everyone is happy that is great, but are there at least alliances of the schools, allowing some people to cast from 2 or 3 different ones? I ask, because there is a great discrepancy between the schools. Some clearly have more spells, therefore more options, and therefore more power, than their companions. Also, cantrips. So, for example, Your abjuration wizard can only legally cast blade ward, no other cantrips, that is a massive reduction in effectiveness. Enchantment wizards would get no 3
rd or 7
th level spells, and I could probably go on, but that gets the point across. People always make alliances, so I don’t think that would alter things too much, but I don’t see highly effective characters coming out of some of these schools if they were limited to only those schools.
He finally chose the Cult of the Dragon during the Rise of Tiamat campaign.. at level 12. so pretty much, every foe he meet during the next 10 games is his special enemy. So in effect, NOTHING was nerfed. This thread is just to make me as a DM look bad, the way I see it.
But its a good point you raise.. During the course of gaming I should naturally let him pick other special foes as the stories unfold
Ah, some things come into focus. Yeah, if he’s effectively not running into fights that are not with his favored enemy, then I could see how you are getting frustrated with how the narrative is playing out on this thread.
My daughter is dying. Not much to give me comfort. Rpg did. That ment A LOT! After a while our DM was out. They asked if i could run his game. So I said yes. After a while we needed a new player or two, and then the Hoar Paladin joined the group. He wasnt used to our way of playing, with more social interaction, political and sosio economic stuff.. anyhow he ended up dominating the group in a nagative way, and as I told the group Im now considdering resigning as a DM, he was willing to discuss changes. With all that stuff going on with my daughter, I dont have much energy to discuss rules in mid-encounters or outside. If he wants to be running the game, fine, he can. If he wants to play, dont run the game. Phb is supposed to be tools to help us run a great and fun game. Not law. Some like These kinda of discussions. Thats Ok. I do too. Normalt. But now Im not up for it. Theres only so much I can take. So after telling him that his constant discussions bring both me and the players down, and the game, he felt like posting OP. Then want to bring all of you into it.
I dont blame any of you. Your just trying to help out.
But the immense lack of respect my player is showing me, saddens me. As a friend, Even Worse! Ive asked him to stop the constant fighting over the rules, but no. So if he cant take me answering in his post, he shouldnt bring it, nor try to bring you guys into his attempt to controll how I run the game. Well Ive decided to quit anyway. The thread wasnt helping. Not a bit. Quite the opposite.
Words fail me at this. All the best to you. This moves beyond anything involving any aspect of the game. Do what you need to do, pick up the pieces of a friendship later, if you still find that relationship worth it.
Huh? What is legendary move? Dragons have no supernatural or legendary action movement abilities..
Wing beat I believe, if we're looking at the legendary actions. Also, unique Dragon NPCs from the adventure path might have altered stats.
I think by the way, that sentinel reduces their speed to 0 for the current turn, but I'd have to dig out my book to double check.
Ok, so this happened!
So first of all i want to apologize to my DM if he anyway felt this thread was an attack or threat. All I wanted was input, and it was not to show him he was wrong but to get a perspective on things. It seems I failed.
I do know the Dm has problems and Im really trying to support him im both the game way and personal and he knows im there if he needs me. But its hard, because you sometime feel totaly useless!
I had no idea the other players feel im overpowered because they havent told me. And until last session I havent really used my abilities to the fullest, and i have standard rolled stats(one upped from 16 to 20 by level and one at 20 due to item from Dm), and the startupgear the Dm gave me. I have no other power, and at the same level with equal stats as the others. And the fact that I saved all from an adult dragon seems now in hinsight that we should maybe just died to level things out. As a player yes I am questioning things, but thats more because Im curious and want to know the reason for things. And most of all im trying to help. If somethings is unclear I try get put my 5 cent understanding of the rules in but get ignored often.
I love to play and its one of the few things that I really look forward to in my days, and I try to play my characters wel. Normaly I get commended and my DM actually has said that I play wel, (exept last time which was the first time I used sentinel and my smite abilities hard) he actually said I was the easiest to handle and played wel.
So yea, im at a loss. The Dm is a great guy, but I feel we are butting heads withouth even knowing why(I atleast dont). It seems my inputs, curiosity and quick ideas(rules and how to fix) around the table is met as an challenge when Its just my personality and that I want to help.
Seems I cannot meet the expections of my Dms paladin im afraid. I do play with woving vengance on foes on kills(bigger ones) and utter my deitys name on kills when its feels right. And when i meet people that have met unjustice, I ask them who it was for later refrence. I also try to aid in some degree those who need it and put myself in harms way if it can help my team. For me these things are the paladin, and am now beeing told i dont know what a paladin is, and that im basicly an powergaming fighter with spells.
Do I play as a smite king or fighter, no I dont think so. Exept last time Iv pulled my smites and tried to use spells and normal melee most of the time even doh the paladin spells is an odd bunch their fun. But now That I relly needed to kill something fast it was natural to smite this Huge creature to save my party. Yes I played it bad(was nervous and annoied because of possible wipe and because 2 other players dragged their feet for 3 hours!!! because they dident want to face the dragon) and should have spoken more "Bye Hoar`s name I shal avenge the eskimoes you have slaughtered, and free them from your evil grip" but this session I dident because I was facing a huge foe and I knew if I dident take it down we might acually die. (Never been as high as level 12, and it was my first dragon)
So in that sence I dont feel that smiting is a «fighter powerplaying wannabe». Yes its powerfull, but its usefull when needed. If I ONLY smited and not used spells att all, wel thats booring and in my mind would ruin my char. But when you have a toolset you need to be able to use them all to get the best job in your eyes done.
To me this basicle comes down to a missunderstanding. Im trying to understand his ideals that I cannot find in the book, and trying to understand how to play and why we need to change my character. And not getting info whats wrong with my char, but only his ideals makes this hard. And he maybe feels that I by asking this and questioning the alterations from the rules are trying to get more powerfull and poweplay which is not the idea.
Love him, but its strange
Love the game love him but sometimes it feel like we are on different planets and wants the same thing but the words gets distorted on the way!
Dont think I have much more to say, but thanks for all the input guys! I learned a few things and im gratefull for it!
One of the things that seems to be the root of you, the players, and DM being on different scales is that the group seems more oriented towards roleplaying than you are. For example, you said 2 people dragged on for 3 hours. That’s extreme to my view, but I’m fan of Critical Role, and I’ve seen them take an hour and a half talking to trees and eating chicken in character. It drives me crazy, because I want them to move the story forward, but for them, capturing those moments are important for their enjoyment of the game and exploring their characters.
At this point, perhaps a discussion with the players about how the group typically operates, what things they expect from a session, and let them know that you aren’t frustrated with them per se, but that you are a man of action, and when there is action on the horizon you want to rush over there in get in the thick of it.
I completely agree though, pulling out all the stops to save the party from a large dragon is iconic paladin. However, when there is the perception of one character essentially taking down a party level threat by themselves (I had a multi-class paladin fighter do this in a game I played in against a draco-lich, while my sorcerer was useless) it can feel disappointing the the players who saw this epic fight looming, and then didn’t get to feel like they contributed.
forgetting that dragons have legendary move as well, and the way I see it, thats a supernatural ability that is not bound to normal rules like Mooving during another players turn etc. But I liked the idea that sentinel could work for a dragon, and I wanted to bring into the feat more realism, so I agreed that he could stop the dragon and override the supernatural abilities with a size modified attack
