Social 'combat'

[Lazarous]

Hi,

I was wondering if anyone knew of (or had created) some form of social combat that would allow for more interesting/involved player interaction to do things like gather information, bluff, etc. instead of merely a single roll. Something like mental 'hp' to resist bluffs, special moves to make an intimidate go through, that sort of thing.

Thanks in advance.

 

[PrinceZane]

Oo Oo Oooo...

I think this is my first reply to a post being the one to answer correctly (I hope...)

2 words though: Circumstance bonuses

I agree that it seems kind of weird that you can take some guy trying to boot you from the bar for disturbance to picking up your tab in a matter of a roll...

You could find various CBs to make the DC harder, or even give the player bonuses/penalties for how well he role playes the situation (choise of words, attitude, etc)

 

[Infiniti2000]

I have never heard of such a system and I really doubt it would be received well. The problem is that generall socializing, etc. is at the heart of roleplaying. Turning it into combat would turn your session from roleplaying + combat to combat + combat. A lot of people, not just a few, would have a huge problem with that. I know many many people who don't even like just the one roll.

 

[Aust Diamondew]

I have never heard of such a system and I really doubt it would be received well. The problem is that generall socializing, etc. is at the heart of roleplaying. Turning it into combat would turn your session from roleplaying + combat to combat + combat. A lot of people, not just a few, would have a huge problem with that. I know many many people who don't even like just the one roll.

I concur. Talk to your players before doing anything.

 

[Primitive Screwhead]

Penumbra's "Demigogue and.." damn, forget the title.

It is an expanded system of handling verbal disputes and debates which includes a 'hp' system to represent your belief in your side. Once you have lost your 'hps', you concede that the others sides argument is right.

The book presents two versions, the very simple.. and the quite complex. In the complex version verbal combat has differring manuevers you can attempt and a variety of tactics. Character class comes into play, as does other skills.

However, as Infiniti notes, its not for everyone. Its best for a game of Bards and Nobles who wish to take thier skills in diplomancy to the next level. Where the 'dungeon' is the city walls and the 'monsters' are competing interests at the palace court. The book goes a long way to provide the rules for running such a combat free adventure.

 

[dcollins]

I was wondering if anyone knew of (or had created) some form of social combat that would allow for more interesting/involved player interaction to do things like gather information, bluff, etc. instead of merely a single roll. Something like mental 'hp' to resist bluffs, special moves to make an intimidate go through, that sort of thing.

Sometimes (mostly for physical skill contests) I make it a best 2-out-of-3 opposed skill checks or something like that. Makes it a bit more exciting as you close in on success (and gives a bit more bias towards whoever has the highest skill).

I believe Unearthed Arcana has something similar for "complex skill checks".

 

[Lazarous]

Thanks for the responses everyone.

Primitive Screwhead, is the title you're talking about 'Dynasties and Demagogues'? I found some references to it on the net and a couple reviews that seem to indicate it had what i'm looking for.

dcollins, the unearthed arcana rules for complex skill checks is actually what sparked this train of thought . Some of my players are die hard conversationalists, and i fear i can't always do a creditable job of displaying how a given npc would react to their entreaties. The base skill system left conversations where skills were utilized somewhat lackluster because even if they had some stunning bit of oratory and i applied a hefty circumstance bonus, the rolls could still go against them, leaving everyone vaguely unsatisfied. I've tried just ignoring skill checks in situations such as those, but my group is somewhat number heavy so they'd probably appreciate a bit more quantified approach to this sort of thing.

 

[Stalker0]

The Silhouette 2nd edition book has just the kind of social rules you are describing...they could probably be converting to 3.5 with a little work.

 

[Slobber Monster]

Here's how I use 3.5e's social skills for involved social situations (with one big change to core rules - I use Rich Burlew's Diplomacy rules).

NPC lord: I need you to do quest X for me.
PC vassal: Can you spare me some soldiers? Mine are all busy performing and important duty (a lie - they're really all dead)

( Rolls bluff vs. sense motive - fails
apply big penalty to diplomacy check from failed bluff to get troops from lord - diplomacy check fails )

NPC lord: (scowling) No! I have wasted enough good men on you already.

PC vassal: Ah, well not in vain sir, look at this shiny bauble I have liberated from the barbarians for you. Perhaps you could merely loan me the services of the court Wizard then?

(Roll diplomacy again, positively modified for bribe. Success!)

NPC lord: Hmmm, OK he will be at your disposal while you make preparations for the journey ahead.

etc.

 

[Lazarous]

The situations i wish i had some sort of social combat system are generally not mechanically complex in terms of rules i can apply to them, but with RAW they feel like a bit of a letdown with the default skill system.

An example - my players were following someone they had evidence was involved in some sort of large-scale secret plot, with orders to discover said plot. One of my PC's, a brazen monk who wanted to be a bard (don't ask) decided that instead of skulking around he'd just go and try to make friends with the person they were following - worm his way into the target's confidence, then find out what he needed to know. I ran that as essentially a complex skill check, but it felt arbitrary to everyone involved.

Another example - same characters, further into the plot. They've found that one person might have the information they're looking for, which they can get through any number of means as its likely this person has records. The bard wannabe decides to try a disguise and a persuasion. Now, the character they're trying to get information from is a fairly accomplished diplomat/statesman so they are elaborate in their prepearations of a cover story and background for the ruse - yet when it comes down to it, there is essentially one opposed check that decides the whole matter, which feels anti-climactic.