Solos: Using AP for the BIG ESCAPE

[Ktulu]

Also, utilizing the Demogogue template from DMG gives the character a recharge 5,6 ability that allows them to move twice their speed as a move action without drawing opportunity attacks. They have to move away from enemies in this move.

Since elite templates can be doubled up to make solo creatures, this is an effective 1 time use in a campaign idea.

 

[cjais]

No, they pretty much have this in the core books. DMG pg. 58 (in the Building Encounters chapter, natch) lists an optional build under the Dragon's Den iconic solo encounter that includes a level n+1 Solo plus a level n Elite to make a hard level n encounter. And the sample dragon encounters in the MM *all* include allies for the 'solo' dragon.

ETA: In fact, it looks like solo monsters in general have sample encounter groups including multiple allies with the solo creare. Hydra, berbalang, Orcus ...

Are you saying we should actually open our books and look?

To try and drag this back on topic, I think using action points to facilitate grand escapes is an excellent idea! Trying to solve the same dilemma, I gave a DIY elite a "move his speed when bloodied as a free action", as a "Get the hell out of dodge"-power.

 

[Wulf Ratbane]

Are you saying we should actually open our books and look?

I have. They've been beside me since my first post.

Of course you can use a lower level Solo monster in a group. The additional power it has been given as a function of being designed Solo is mitigated by using a lower level base creature.

I confess to a bit of rigid thinking based on the premise of the thread. My BBEGs are not typically lower level than the party.

 

[Christian]

I confess to a bit of rigid thinking based on the premise of the thread. My BBEGs are not typically lower level than the party.

Well, yes; but you're not limited to the climactic encounter being an encounter of 'Average' difficulty, i.e. right around the party level. The 'Hard' solo encounter templates in the DMG are both at level n+3, and both have a solo monster of higher than the party level n (an n+3 solo by itself, or an n+1 solo and a level n elite, which could be replaced by 2 level n normal monsters, or 8 funions--er, minions). And IME with 4E (which is limited, I have to add), a party with most of their dailies & a good fraction of their surges left have a decent shot at handling a level n+5 encounter ...

 

[Jack99]

I have. They've been beside me since my first post.

Of course you can use a lower level Solo monster in a group. The additional power it has been given as a function of being designed Solo is mitigated by using a lower level base creature.

I confess to a bit of rigid thinking based on the premise of the thread. My BBEGs are not typically lower level than the party.

I think we are all talking about two different things. You are talking about equal level encounters, whereas the rest of us are talking about encounters that are higher level than the party.

I would never use (95% of all solos at least) a solo in an equal level encounter.

 

[Runestar]

Doesn't this seem like a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? You are conserving its APs so that it can use them to facilitate in its escape. Yet by doing so, you are directly weakening its combat potential (since it can now make fewer attacks), which in turn all but ensures that it will need to flee (because it will likely get its behind kicked by the PCs, since you are not playing it to its full potential).

 

[Stalker0]

Doesn't this seem like a sort of self-fulfilling prophecy? You are conserving its APs so that it can use them to facilitate in its escape. Yet by doing so, you are directly weakening its combat potential (since it can now make fewer attacks), which in turn all but ensures that it will need to flee (because it will likely get its behind kicked by the PCs, since you are not playing it to its full potential).

Exactly. The idea is that the solo is designed to fight and then escape, just like in a story. This is how some of the best dnd villains are created, nothing creates a hated enemy more for players than the one that got away.

 

[Christian]

Exactly. The idea is that the solo is designed to fight and then escape, just like in a story. This is how some of the best dnd villains are created, nothing creates a hated enemy more for players than the one that got away.

Plus, it's not like the two action points are going to be the difference in the BBEG winning or losing--if he uses them for offense, he'll lose by just a little bit less, ordinarily. But they can very easily make the difference between losing and living to fight another day, especially if the PCs have mostly used their APs.

Oh, and also, to respond to a question earlier that I don't recall seeing an answer to: solo monsters can, in fact, use both of their action points in one encounter. In general, no 4E monsters have limited-use powers that they might try to 'save for later', because in general there is no later for a monster--if it fights PCs, it's expected to die in that encounter. The 2nd AP for a solo is useless if it can't use the second one until after it's dead.

 

[Runestar]

I thought you typically used a solo of 2-3 lvs higher than the party to ensure a climatic fight of sorts.

Plus, it's not like the two action points are going to be the difference in the BBEG winning or losing--if he uses them for offense, he'll lose by just a little bit less, ordinarily.

The idea is that if he goes nova in the 1st 2 rounds, he should be able to do enough damage to potentially take down at least 1 PC. After all, a PC is every bit as effective regardless of whether he is at full life or at 1hp, you ideally want to push him towards to ultimate status effect (death) ASAP. This way, with fewer PCs to face, this means fewer actions (which in turn translates to fewer attacks/damage/debuffs etc).

After all, I don't see what is wrong with the PCs killing the solo, then have him manage to cheat death somehow via DM fiat. They still get full xp for overcoming him regardless of which path I choose, so I see no reason to not let my players earn that.

 

[Joshua Randall]

Just make sure not to overdo the whole "villain gets away" bit. It can get frustrating, as a player, to fight the same guy over and over.

Players love to hate the villain = good.

Players are annoyed with villain and groan when he shows up again = bad.