Some of my PCs need to be punished...What to do?

[Ulorian - Agent of Chaos]

I'm not sure the barbarian's player is doing this to be cruel. Maybe he's just playing in character, and you're not picking up on it. Maybe this is how he imagines warrior training happens in his culture. Maybe this is what passes for courtship in his culture.

I wouldn't be so quick to slap down his character, especially as it doesn't seem like you've approached him and had a frank discussion about this. You 'dropping hints' is not an open dialogue, especially when your hints have the elven princess pretending to enjoy her treatment, which communicates to the barbarian that what he's doing is acceptable to her. Her reaction is completely unrealistic. It's not like she is the prisoner of the PCs and has to obey their every whim. She is under DM control; by having her participate in the training (and act like she's enjoying it!??!?!), you are telling the PCs that they are doing nothing wrong, because they think she is doing this of her own free will. Basically, you are planning on punishing the party for a mistake you are making.

 

[Whisper72]

Hmmm... first off, I think this kind of attitude / roleplaying behavior is distasteful and immature on a personal / player level as well, but that is just IMO.

To solve this in a roleplaying fashion, I would definately have her be rescued. By an elven patrol from her father's court if this is logical (depends upon where the PC's are now compared to the elven court in question), or otherwise the shining paladin idea put forth by Ironmani is a very good one. Make sure that the rescuing party is so obviously overpowering that should the PC's try to resort to armed violence, all of them get killed in the process.

Otherwise, play it such that the PC's are left alone, i.e. not immediately brought in for justice. As a reason, have the elf girl be so disgusted by the PC's that she does not want to travel with them, nor see them in the elven court. She will henceforth make sure that is becomes known what the PC's (yes, ALL of them are guilty, standing around and doing only 'a little' is no excuse) have done, and make sure they are never again welcome into the elven courts. Every elf from that nation they meet will instantly be hostile the moment they find out who they are, and several elven warriors may set out to try to kill them.

Have the elf girl turn into a hateful wench, who starts scheming behind the scenes against the PC's from the safety of the elf court. Assassination attempts, killing of family / clan members of the barbarian and the PC's. Have news reach the PC's that the homestead of the barbarian tribe has been razed to the ground and everyone slaughtered by orcs. Have people wonder how it could be that orcs somehow managed to get there and get away (possibly with prisoners / slaves, among which members of the barbarian's family) while in such close proximity to elven forces who somehow did not lift a finger to stop them...

I could go on, but you get the gist. They have managed to piss of an entire nation. They are in for a world of hurt way beyond the personal level. The elf girl would not stop until everything the PC's ever thought was valuable (in the emotional sense) has been taken away from them or destroyed, and finally, the PC's themselves would find their doom unless they flee far, far away, to a galaxy long long ago (or something like that...)

 

[Shallown]

Okay I'm coming at this from A different angle.

Was this the way the Barbarian was raised. I mean does he see showing pain as weakness and such. I think a lot of people are pushing 20th century ideasof brutality on to this less civilized world. I could see turning this around and letting the elven princess realize that the reason she has been captured and used is becuase she is weak. Maybe she needs this to break her out of being a victim. Maybe he can break her down and rebuild her.

Now this sounds cruel etc. It is .. life can be cruel. Up side she becomes tough like the Barb.

Now to the evil GM downside. She becomes like the Barb. Meaning cruel rough and uncaring. She becomes very unelven in a sense. She mighty turn into a tyranical elven ruler or a difficult bitchy princess that is abusive.

It could be a great roleplaying opportunity to show the Barb that maybe his training methods and the ones used on him are not always the best way.

I would take this opportunity to play it out.

And no I don't think this is morally acceptable behavior but its a game that can be used to play out this situation that may not be neccessarily straight out evil but in a gray area, a very dark grey area but still.

Later

 

[mythago]

I think a lot of people are pushing 20th century ideasof brutality on to this less civilized world.

I think you're putting a lot of 20th-century ideas of class and station on a less-civilized world, for starters. Why is the rest of the group allowing a lowly barbarian to give orders to a high-born Elf? Do they not get that he would probably be gutted and beheaded by the elves for his impudence, and them along with him for permitting it?

As long as we're coming up with possible barbarian culture, the barbarian probably wouldn't even *talk* to the elf, as she's an unmarried woman and thus it would be improper. Besides, he'd probably become ritually unclean if he touched her. (You want to play 'real world and ancient times'? I'll see you and raise you a taboo.)

The original post really baffled me. Why is the princess running off all the time, especially since it's resulted in being taken hostage "more than once"? Who is this backseat DM who 'made' you kill a PC? What does the party expect will happen when the princess gets back to her kingdom? Why haven't you let one of the punishments (like, the drowning) result in a blown roll and a dead princess? Why does the barbarian player think that the princess is going to marry a) a human b) barbarian c) of her own choice, not her father's d) who tortures her?

 

[Shallown]

I think you're putting a lot of 20th-century ideas of class and station on a less-civilized world, for starters. Why is the rest of the group allowing a lowly barbarian to give orders to a high-born Elf? Do they not get that he would probably be gutted and beheaded by the elves for his impudence, and them along with him for permitting it?

As long as we're coming up with possible barbarian culture, the barbarian probably wouldn't even *talk* to the elf, as she's an unmarried woman and thus it would be improper. Besides, he'd probably become ritually unclean if he touched her. (You want to play 'real world and ancient times'? I'll see you and raise you a taboo.)

The original post really baffled me. Why is the princess running off all the time, especially since it's resulted in being taken hostage "more than once"? Who is this backseat DM who 'made' you kill a PC? What does the party expect will happen when the princess gets back to her kingdom? Why haven't you let one of the punishments (like, the drowning) result in a blown roll and a dead princess? Why does the barbarian player think that the princess is going to marry a) a human b) barbarian c) of her own choice, not her father's d) who tortures her?

Very true on all accounts. I'm not playing 'real world and ancient times'? so much as suggesting that there are many ways to look at this that are not so 20th century rooted. I would think that there are some cultures where what he is doing is normal. What little I know would lead me to think that there is a reasonable set of taboos/culture to assign this situation. If not then make one up, it is after all a make believe world. It has to have some seeming of realistic within its own frame work. I'm not sure I have answers to all your questions but I think i could answer some at least well enough to explain why the barabrian is acting this way.

I was trying to say that there is an opportunity here to do something other than punish the player out right but to develop a cool/unique roleplaying relationship.

I think the other questions you pose are interesting. Perhaps with more info we, fellow GM's, can offer some more advice. My only advice is stay out of a possible rut and try something different.

 

[Rel]

I have had her sneak off a few times and be held hostage by many different types of monsters.

This is the part that jumped out at me and it could account for the barbarian's actions (though it is hard to tell the exact perspective of the player).

It seems to me that oftentimes the D&D barbarian culture is portrayed as one that prizes self reliance and personal strength above all else. It also tends to be portrayed as a meritocracy, with chieftains who rule because they are great warriors rather than because of who their mommy and daddy were.

Therefore I could imagine the barbarian saying, "Look sweetie, you keep running off and doing the whole 'damsel in distress' thing. And every time you do, somebody, usually us, has to put themselves in mortal peril to come rescue you because you couldn't fight your way out of a wet paper bag. And then you go do it all over again next week. Well I'm tired of it! So I'm going to teach you a lesson about what real hardship is about. From the pain you are about to receive I'm hoping you'll learn one of two lessons and I don't care which. Either learn to take care of yourself so you need rescuing less often or learn to stay the hell home and out of danger. Now start rolling that ball. Dinner is scheduled for sometime later this week, your highness."

I'm not saying this is a wise course of action by any means. The king is likely to take a dim view of this treatment of his daughter's royal personage, even if he isn't wild about his daughter's sneaking off into the waiting clutches of the "Bad Guy du Jour". But I don't think of it as torture. It's more like "involuntary basic training".

 

[Tewligan]

...but one of my backseat DMs made me kill him...However, his "training" mrethods make me sick to my stomache...Then the Barbs players takes me aside and asks me f there is anyway I can seed up time without him againg cause he wants this girl to be his wife...He also claims it is for her "own good". He also openly admits that he will beat his children.

What the hell is wrong with your players?

 

[Eisenkrote]

What the hell is wrong with your players?

He's a barbarian. Barbarians consider barbaric training "the norm". And its true that the DM may be judging the character's actions using modern morals. Putting all that aside, this is a wonderful opportunity to teach the player that actions have repercussions. Whether or not he feels he is doing the right thing, and regardless of whether the Elven Princess seems to want the training or not, there is no way a royal family would allow this for any of their members. Sets a bad precedent.

That being said, there's plenty of blame to go around, and the whole party should pay the price. This way if there's any "lapses" in the future, everyone will make sure to keep him in line. Make the punishment swift and harsh, as is befitting a royal wrath. Make sure everyone pays. And put the incident behind you.

Sounds to me like the player is getting a little *too* into playing the barbarian class.

And feel free to introduce him to this thread on the messageboards.

 

[ironmani]

20th century values or not, no king, or father for that matter, would ever let that kind of treatment slide if it was being to his daughter, let alone princess.
They are going to go, "My thanks good babrbarian, you have toughened my daughter up and made her an inpressive speciemen! Only you are truly worth of her hand in marriage." Please. If the king only beheads the barbarian, he would be getting off lucky. Theres no real reason for the barbarian to do stuff like this except for the fact he wants to break her spirit and turn her into his personal wench. Look at Conan, he was nice to the princess in the second movie. And he had a plenty hard life.

 

[Gundark]

you mentioned you were playing in FR. Have the Eldreth Veluuthra come after them (from the book lords of darkness). Basically they're a bunch of human hating elves who like to kill humans (they'll ambush farmers and stuff).