D&D 5E Some questions about spell damage.

[Andreagoma]

First of all hi to everybody. I'm not native english so forgive me for spelling and grammar

I'm not new to D&D and RPG in general, started in mid 80s, but I'm new to 5th ED.
So far this looks like a solid edition and me and my group, yes I'm the DM, are enjoying it.

Reading the rules, especially the spells section, I noticed something weird about some spells, and 'cause it seems I can't figure out what it is I decided to ask the community

If I look at spells like Fireball or Lightning Bolt these spells do 8d6 of damage as 3rd level spells, damage increase if cast with higher slots. Spells like Flame Strike (5th level) or Circle of Death (6th level) do the same damage.
What am I missing? Why does these high level spells do the same damage as lower level spells?

All of them allow saving throw to half, are instantaneous, have different AoE but that's normal.

Thanks in advance for answers.

 

[fuindordm]

One reason the higher-level spells are objectively better is that monsters who resist the damage type are less common. Fire resistance is relatively common, and fireballs can catch your allies in the blast (unless you're an evoker). Flame strike does a mix of fire and radiant damage, so resistance against just one of them is less effective. So that's the reason, or at least part of it--there are probably other minor differences.

Whether those differences are worth a whole spell level is another question.

 

[DEFCON 1]

In addition... different classes get damaging spells at different levels based on whether they are meant to be more blastery or not. Wizards are a more direct-damage based spellcasting class than the Cleric is, which is why the Wizard's Fireball is a 3rd level spell, whereas the Cleric's Flame Strike is a 5th level one. They both do similar damage, but they come to their respective class at a different level.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

It might be worth pointing out that flame strike and fireball are not typically both available to a spell caster. Fireball is available to arcane casters like the sorcerer and the wizard while flame strike is available to the cleric. The cleric's list is more focused on supportive spells such as buffs, debuffs, healing and status curing. While the cleric has all the efficient support spells it lacks easy access to efficient damage which is more in the wheelhouse of the arcane casters. (Note that cleric domains often add a sub theme to the cleric. To a cleric of light, flame strike seems like a sub par choice).

As for circle of death which does appear alongside fireball in the wizard and sorcerer lists there isn't much of an explanation. One could argue that necrotic damage is a bit better than fire but at the end of the day in a typical situation fireball is the better choice. Not all spells are created equally.

 

[Andreagoma]

One reason the higher-level spells are objectively better is that monsters who resist the damage type are less common. Fire resistance is relatively common, and fireballs can catch your allies in the blast (unless you're an evoker). Flame strike does a mix of fire and radiant damage, so resistance against just one of them is less effective. So that's the reason, or at least part of it--there are probably other minor differences.

Whether those differences are worth a whole spell level is another question.

My Warlock says that Circle of Death is a "black fireball" , agreed with different resistances, didn't thought about that, good point.

In addition... different classes get damaging spells at different levels based on whether they are meant to be more blastery or not. Wizards are a more direct-damage based spellcasting class than the Cleric is, which is why the Wizard's Fireball is a 3rd level spell, whereas the Cleric's Flame Strike is a 5th level one. They both do similar damage, but they come to their respective class at a different level.

My Warlock player had chosen the fiend patron, so he gets fireball and flame strike as bonus.

Only think that was weird to me is the damage scaling, maybe I was explaining badly.
Why use Circle of Death when a Fireball cast with a 6th level slot would do 11d6 of damage, only for resistances?
For example Finger of Death does something like 7d8+30 (doesn't have manual in front of me now) and it is a 7th level spell.

EDIT: Was typing when MonkeezOnFire posted his contribution and I agree with you, just to me feel a bit weird, or at least don't know if these differences are really worth the jump in levels.

 

[Staffan]

Others have already explained the deal with flame strike: it's there for less blasty classes like clerics and druids. Circle of death on the other hand has the main advantage that it's effin' huge - a 60-foot radius sphere. That's three times the radius of a fireball, which means nine times the area (or 27 times the volume, but that's rarely relevant).

Fireball is a squad-killer. Circle of death kills a small army.

It's also a Constitution save, which means it's useful against many opponents where fireball is less powerful.

 

[Andreagoma]

Yeah didn't realize radius was so huge, not used to feet :d that explains a lot.

 

[miniaturehoarder]

Yeah didn't realize radius was so huge, not used to feet :d that explains a lot.

Fireball also lights stuff on fire. I don't know about other DMs, but I damn well rule if a victim doesn't survive the fireball, neither will their flammable stuff. Wood is often used for supports underground and many outdoors areas can burn.

Arcane Magic deals better damage overall, and Evocation school deals better better damage than other schools of magic.

IMHO Enchantment and Necromancy ought to do comparable damage, but only with Psychic and Necrotic respectively. With the HORRIFIC limitation Concentration forces onto those schools, I think it would only be fair. Sure Necromancy might be able to hack it with undead servants, but since the game is encouraging PCs to be good or neutral, Necromancy's one balancing factor is LOST for the only people it matters for, PCs. (since the DM can give a NPC necromancer whatever they need to challenge the party).