D&D 4E Some Thoughts on 4e

[ronin]

Our group has been playing 4e since it was released and for the most part everyone seems to be enjoying the game. Most of us agree however that something seems to be missing but none of us are able to identify the issue. After some thought I have a few ideas I’d like to get some opinions from before making any changes. Currently I am a player in a campaign that won’t be ending any time soon so the changes I am thinking about would be implemented when I start a new campaign in the future.

There are two things I’d like to address. The first is the choice of powers available to arcane and divine casters on a daily basis. I don’t like the lack of versatility that is currently in the game. The second is how lengthy combats can get once the party’s more damaging powers have been expended. At times it seems like we just whittle away at the creatures forever before they finally go down.

I’d like to see arcane and divine casters choose their powers daily as they used to choose spells in 3e. Arcane casters could choose from any powers they have in their spellbook like they do now, they would just be allowed to have more than two powers a level. The DM running the game would set the limit. Theoretically they could have access to every power if the DM chose to allow it. Divine casters would choose their powers daily from all powers available, similar to how divine spells worked in previous editions. This would allow casters to adapt instead of being locked in with their choices. The usage of powers would remain the same; only the method of choosing them would change.

I don’t know exactly how much more powerful this makes arcane and divine characters but it is a benefit so I plan to add something to martial classes as well. I would make all martial powers reliable. This would serve two purposes. The first is to give a bump to the martial classes in an effort to keep everyone on a level playing field. The second would be to help shorten combats so they don’t get so boring at the end. Missing with a big daily power really sucks. You can still miss, but next round you’d get another shot.

The only question left is what to do with the fighter’s powers since they have a lot of reliable abilities already. I am thinking of giving them two powers at each level similar to what a wizard gets now. A fighter’s powers are tied to their weapon so I am not sure that’s a real benefit or not. I only planned on the changes above applying to daily and utility powers, not encounter powers. Though the more I think about it I may include encounter powers as well. I guess that’s why I am asking for suggestions.

I am normally reluctant to have a lot of house rules but as I said above, something seems to be missing. Hopefully I’ll get some good advice or suggestions. Thanks in advance for the input.

 

[Vayden]

Combat length has been addressed in many many threads here - short answer - have more strikers, have the DM look at encounter composition a little more closely.

As far as your ideas for dailies - if you'd like to give Wizards and Clerics some of that older edition feel by letting them choose their powers, I say go for it. It's an edge, but it's not a huge edge, as long as you keep it to dailies (I wouldn't let them do that for utility powers, but that's just me). I wouldn't bother balancing out the other classes, as I don't think the choice is that huge of an advantage (especially for people who are used to the old edition's massive power gap between casters and non-casters).

However, what I would stress, is that you don't want to try and "balance" it by making the other class's dailies all reliable. Almost all the non-reliable powers have some benefit on a miss, so if you make those powers reliable, you're giving someone a situation where they're getting some effect, but not losing the use of the power. Like I said, I would just leave it be, but if you do want to balance it out, I would suggest just letting them choose their dailies at the start of the day as well.

 

[Milambus]

The wizard feat expanded spellbook already allows the wizard to learn an additional daily at each level. You could just open this feat up to other classes, giving them some more flexibility but at the cost of feat (and needing 13 wis). Or if you still just want to give the casters all their dallies for free, you could balance it by giving the other classes a free feat.

However, just remember that the removal of huge spellbooks was done on purpose. To many options at every rest may slow things down.

 

[Milambus]

Also you may want to be careful using general terms like Arcane and Divine, unless you meant to include Wizard, Cleric, Paladin, Warlock and Swordmages (and Artificers?). Thats equal to half (or more) of the classes, depending on which books you are using.

 

[Plane Sailing]

might not be exactly what you are thinking of, but I think that dramatically increasing the number and availability of rituals would be a big help for giving clerics and wizards more flexibility and versatility.

 

[mattdm]

might not be exactly what you are thinking of, but I think that dramatically increasing the number and availability of rituals would be a big help for giving clerics and wizards more flexibility and versatility.

Yes. Make sure you have the Ritually Speaking article from Dragon (and e-mail customer service asking for more articles like it).


I've considered a house rule to double the number of utility powers everyone gets.

 

[Nebulous]

There are two things I’d like to address. The first is the choice of powers available to arcane and divine casters on a daily basis. I don’t like the lack of versatility that is currently in the game.

I dislike this as well. Much of the fun "magic" of the game has been stripped out. I'm tinkering with an idea that might help: a feat (call it whatever, Ritual Caster) that lets you cast a ritual you know as a Standard action. You can have as many queued up equal to your INT bonus. You still have to pay all costs associated with each ritual, effectively casting it right up until the final trigger.

This would allow for more variety and spells that aren't necessarily damage dealing spells, but still might be useful in the middle of a fight. It would also require a longer list of cool rituals to sample from.

 

[DracoSuave]

I dislike this as well. Much of the fun "magic" of the game has been stripped out. I'm tinkering with an idea that might help: a feat (call it whatever, Ritual Caster) that lets you cast a ritual you know as a Standard action. You can have as many queued up equal to your INT bonus. You still have to pay all costs associated with each ritual, effectively casting it right up until the final trigger.

This would allow for more variety and spells that aren't necessarily damage dealing spells, but still might be useful in the middle of a fight. It would also require a longer list of cool rituals to sample from.

The idea is to depower clerics and wizards so that they aren't the walking wishspells however. Rituals have been depowered for a reason, so that they can't dominate battle.

Of course, when people discuss what they've taken away, they also seem to neglect the fact that Dimension Door-like abilities are handed out like candy, and that many wizards can reuse their options.

Houseruling that Wizards and Clerics get their rituals in battle requires some sort of balancing act for those that did not choose those two classes, and as well, the monsters.

 

[DracoSuave]

I've considered a house rule to double the number of utility powers everyone gets.

Good luck ever hitting a ranger or rogue ever again.

 

[ronin]

Thanks for all of the replies. There are some good ideas being thrown out there which is what I was hoping would happen. Now for my own thoughts.

Vayden- if I decided to make the martial powers reliable I would not have anything happen on a miss. I was thinking that all along but failed to mention that in my original post. I could see how an extra striker would end combats sooner but in a 5 person party do you think the striker is the one to double up on? We have a 5 person party now and we have 2 leaders- a cleric and a warlord. The additional healing is nice but dealing additional damage would be as well.

Milambus- I was really only thinking about clerics and wizards. I think the other classes are interesting and versatile enough with the new choices they get already. I'm just having trouble adjusting to the changes made to clerics and wizards. Funny thing is I only played 5 PCs in the third edition era. They were a monk, fighter, wizard, cleric/monk, and a fighter/rogue. The rest of the time was spent running 2 campaigns. The first went to level 15 and the second level 23.

Plane Sailing / mattdm / Nebulous- I really do like the way rituals were handled, I think they are great. I thought about shortening the time to cast one (maybe by having a scroll be a standard action to cast) but it seemed anti "ritualistic" if you know what I mean. A ritual seems like it should take awhile just by the name alone. I have the article from Dragon and once more rituals are published I'll be snatching those up too!

DracoSauve- I like that the classes are evenly powered though it did take a bit for me to adjust. I'm still adjusting to everyone pushing, pulling, and teleporting all over the battlefield as well. I like the tactical options but it doesn't seem as "D&D" to me yet as the older editions. I really DM more than anything else so I am looking forward to that part being simpler. I usually run published stuff but for the first time ever I am planning a home brew campaign. That alone tells me something positive about the game.

I think after reading the suggestions so far I like a combination of ideas. Give clerics and wizards access to spells as in previous editions combined with letting the other classes choose 2 dailys and utilities at each level instead of just one. I'm open to more suggestions however so keep them coming!