Sonic Fireball and Silence

[isoChron]

Thank you all so far.
I should have known that this discussion appeared in the past.
The argument of "silence" won't let [sonic] pass is significant.

But what is [sonic] damage ??? Sonic as the spectrum from 20Hz to 20.000Hz like we (humans) can hear it ? Very low Vibrations like the sound elephants or whales can make ? Very high frequencies like ultrasonic ? Just one shockwave ?

And the argument about the drawbacks of "silence" centered on the caster are less important if the caster places a "silence" in line of fire IN FRONT of the caster. So all sonic moving through the "silence" will be eleminated and the caster can still cast his Lightning Bolt or Acid Fireball or whatever. And a second level spell to block ALL [sonic] damage regardless of the power of the spell seems a bit ... hmm ... harsh.

All elemental protection spells do also offer protection against sonic. So a dragon can protect himself from sonic even if he does not silence himself (would be a little bit difficult for a really BIG dragon).

If you say all movement of air is surpressed ... think about breathing, moving, ....

I thought of it more like a zone of antisonic. Each wave is countered by a similar wave shifted half an amplitude. Both waves will eliminate themselves and no sound will come through. (I think such systems are tested in turboprob aeroplanes, in a limited way of course.)

I'm still unsure about the way [sonic] damage works in a silenced area. I think it is valid to say [sonic] is negated, not because of game balance but rather for the scientific reasons.

Well, a lot of words and it still depends on the DM.
The problem is: all of our group will be DM in rotative sequence.

It is nice to get so many answers in such a short time. Thank you all again.

Bye

[EDIT: LOL 10 new answers while I tried to type my reply. Frustrating ]

 

[IceBear]

Thank you all so far.
I should have known that this discussion appeared in the past.
The argument of "silence" won't let [sonic] pass is significant.

But what is [sonic] damage ??? Sonic as the spectrum from 20Hz to 20.000Hz like we (humans) can hear it ? Very low Vibrations like the sound elephants or whales can make ? Very high frequencies like ultrasonic ? Just one shockwave ?

And the argument about the drawbacks of "silence" centered on the caster are less important if the caster places a "silence" in line of fire IN FRONT of the caster. So all sonic moving through the "silence" will be eleminated and the caster can still cast his Lightning Bolt or Acid Fireball or whatever. And a second level spell to block ALL [sonic] damage regardless of the power of the spell seems a bit ... hmm ... harsh.

All elemental protection spells do also offer protection against sonic. So a dragon can protect himself from sonic even if he does not silence himself (would be a little bit difficult for a really BIG dragon).

If you say all movement of air is surpressed ... think about breathing, moving, ....

I thought of it more like a zone of antisonic. Each wave is countered by a similar wave shifted half an amplitude. Both waves will eliminate themselves and no sound will come through. (I think such systems are tested in turboprob aeroplanes, in a limited way of course.)

I'm still unsure about the way [sonic] damage works in a silenced area. I think it is valid to say [sonic] is negated, not because of game balance but rather for the scientific reasons.

Well, a lot of words and it still depends on the DM.
The problem is: all of our group will be DM in rotative sequence.

It is nice to get so many answers in such a short time. Thank you all again.

Bye

Did you not read the Sage's response.

If you put a silence spell in front of you the sonic fireball could still pass through it.

Does that make sense? No, not scientifically, but this is magic not science

It's not about stopping the movement of air, it's about nullifying sound waves (look at glamers in the Illusion school and re read silence). All that happens is that the silence spell stops sound waves within it's area.

Personally, I don't think I would allow sonic substitution. I don't mind the 4 main elements, but sonic seems to allow the spellcaster to overcome all monsters' defenses.

IceBear

 

[Xeoble]

We need a definition of sonic damage...is it the noise that hurts you or the vibrations...

If the noise hurts you then silence would block it

If its the vibrations (ULF, etc which you can't hear) then silence wont help

Yay for quantum physics!

 

[isoChron]

Yeah, IceBear, I think you're right and the sage ,too.
But all of my inner self resists to such simple answers .
No, seriously I think I won't take Energy Substitution [sonic].

Err, yes I read the last ten posts AFTER I desperately tried to condense my thoughts to words.
No quick translating from me and ... wooops ... all said when I was finally finished.


Bye

Edit: spelling

 

[IceBear]

But isn't it the vibration of air that causes the noise (if we have to get scientific)?

For me, the Sage has ruled that silence would stop sonic spells, and since there is little else that specifically counters sonic attacks, it's cool with me but if you feel that this makes silence too powerful don't allow it. I personally think energy substitution: sonic is too powerful and thus I wouldn't allow it.

IceBear

 

[Sanackranib]

sonic

if a tree falls in the forset and no one is around to hear it does it make any noise? it depends on weither noise is sound or the sonic vibrations picked up by our ear. if you view sonic as noise then it wouldnt work. if its vibrations then it would.

 

[Morose]

In our campaign we allow sonic to be used as a substituted energy type ONLY because Silence cancels sonic damage completely and is a level 2 spell. If you allow energy subsitution: sonic and DO NOT allow Silence to counter it, then sonic damage is just plain overpowered in my groups collective opinion. YMMV. It would seem to be just common sense that you couldn't damage someone with sound if the sound was negated. I can't see a valid, common sense based, argument for allowing sonic damage through Silence.

 

[Darklone]

WAAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Just like the old thread. Even after a clear answer, it goes on and on and on and on and on ....

 

[Maitre Du Donjon]

I'd just like to chime in with my reason why a silence spell should NOT block a sonic fireball.

First of all, the Silence spell in a glamer. A glamer is defined as such: "A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear."

My interpretation would be that the Silence spell does not block air vibration, thus blocking sound, but actually makes the creatures in the area of effect deaf (changes their sensory qualities).

Now, the question would be, does sonic damage only affect creatures that can hear? Of course not, since Sonic damage can break inanimate objects.

Thats why i say Sonicball still works in an area of silence.

Now, like (Psi)SeveredHead noted, if Silence was an abjuration, i'd have to agree that the sonicball is cancelled by silence...

Maitre D

 

[IceBear]

I'd just like to chime in with my reason why a silence spell should NOT block a sonic fireball.

First of all, the Silence spell in a glamer. A glamer is defined as such: "A glamer spell changes a subject's sensory qualities, making it look, feel, taste, smell, or sound like something else, or even seem to disappear."

My interpretation would be that the Silence spell does not block air vibration, thus blocking sound, but actually makes the creatures in the area of effect deaf (changes their sensory qualities).

Now, the question would be, does sonic damage only affect creatures that can hear? Of course not, since Sonic damage can break inanimate objects.

Thats why i say Sonicball still works in an area of silence.

Now, like (Psi)SeveredHead noted, if Silence was an abjuration, i'd have to agree that the sonicball is cancelled by silence...

Maitre D

Silence does not affect people it affects sound. It's not stopping a person's sensory quality (ie, can't hear) but changes the sound produced by everything in the area to no-sound.

By your explanation, if I screamed at the top of my lungs inside a silence area I wouldn't hear it because I'm deaf but then shouldn't those people outside the area hear me? Strange that the spell description says that those outside wouldn't hear you either.

IceBear