D&D 5E Sorcerer Rebalance, Through Flexible Casting And Wizard Spells

Infammo

First Post
Greetings everyone. I have been enjoying 5e since it came out and had the pleasure of both being a player and a DM over the turn. And through the part, I have been noticing basic aspects of the 5e sorcerer that limits them in ways that has not been present in older editions. In particular, the limited spell list and the economy of their sorcerer point conversion system. That as a result, makes them non-flexible. Because the trade is simply that bad.

As such, with the help of my fellow players, I thought up a simple alteration to the flexible casting mechanic, that gives sorcerers the stamina and flexibility we love them for. Along with giving them access to the wizard spell list, like the sorcerers of old.

SPELL CHOICE

When you learn a new spell list upon achieving a relevant level, as shown in the Spells Known column of the Sorcerer Table. You may pick any spell from the sorcerer or the wizard list. As long as the wizard spell is not prefixed by the name of a wizard, such as Mordekainen's, Bigby's and so forth.

FLEXIBLE CASTING
You can use your sorcery points to gain additional spell slots, or sacrifice spell slots to gain additional sorcery points. You learn other ways to use your sorcery points as you reach higher levels.

Creating Spell Slots.
You can transform expended sorcery points, as shown in the Sorcery Points column of the Sorcerer Table, into one spell slot as a bonus action on your turn.The Creating Spell Slots table shows the cost of creating a spell slot of a given level. You can create spell slots no higher in level than 5th.

Creating Spell Slots
Sorcery point Cost
1st
1​
2nd
2​
3rd
4​
4th
5​
5th
7


Converting a Spell Slot to Sorcery Points.
As a bonus action on your turn, you can expend one spell slot and gain a number of sorcery points equal to the slot's level, +1 if the slot is of 3rd level or above.


We now have a sorcerer capable of using their baseline sorcery points into spell slots in a much more useful way than before. Along with being able to convert a slot into a slightly more favorable amount of points to use for Metamagic and class features. As they would have access to the wizard spell list, they will be able to make choices such as controlling the environment, rather than merely blast.

Example
[sblock]A 10th level sorcerer encounters fights early in the day where they finds himself out of 2nd level slots. As such, they convert 3 of their sorcery points into a 2nd level slot and a 1st level slot. Giving them baseline ammunition. Later they decide they need at least one big trick for the day. So they convert their last 7 points into a 5th level slot. Leaving them with 3 total. Then, they decide they want some Metamagic options, so they convert one of their three 4th level slots into 5 sorcery points.[/sblock]

Afterword
[sblock]It was my experience observing, that sorcerers never employed their flexible casting mechanic, due to the bad economy. As a result, a sorcerer effectively had the same amount of spells as any other full range caster, but much fewer to choose from for their limited spells they can know. Making different sorcerers end up homogenized due to their spell choices being so similar. A 10th level sorcerer being able to create a 4th and 3rd spell slot from their base 10 points does not seem to break anything. Neither does the beneficial trade for 1st and 2nd level slots. Due to how these two levels are balanced in power. Also, it resurrects the idea of a sorcerer knowing fewer spells, but being able to cast them more often.

As doing either of these things leaves you with a sorcerer that either has to trade other slots for Metamagic, or can fire lots of low level spells, of which they will likely not know many total, and then has to trade high level slots for points, testing has left it feeling like a reasonable balance choice.[/sblock]

One of the inspirations for this redesign was a line in the sorcerer description from the players handbook:
Whatever their goals, sorcerers are every bit as useful to an adventuring party as wizards, making up for a comparative lack of breadth in their magical knowledge with enormous flexibility in using the spells they know.

As one does, I would deeply treasure your insight, thought and feedback upon this endeavor.
 
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
I can't speak to balance, as I haven't tested it, but conceptually I like where you are going with this.

I don't know if I agree that the sorcerer needs the WHOLE Wizard spell list, but I'm not entirely against it, either. Another possibility would be an expanded list by subclass, but it would have to be pretty substantial.

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Infammo

First Post
In this case. I was referring to how in past editions, sorcerers and wizards have traditionally shared the same spell list. A tradition that even carried over to pathfinder.

As such, I felt it rather returned the feel of the class as how we used to know it. The caster so full with magic that they basically have to use it or it will find a way to be used. - The alternative would be to go through the wizard list and remove basically any that are fundamentally wizard. Like Mordekainen, Bigby etc. The spells that were invented by wizards.

It was a bit curious how those spells were usable by sorcerers in past editions, but I try to not argue with people that can melt faces on a whim.
 
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FitzTheRuke

Legend
In this case. I was referring to how in past editions, sorcerers and wizards have traditionally shared the same spell list. A tradition that even carried over to pathfinder.

As such, I felt it rather returned the feel of the class as how we used to know it. The caster so full with magic that they basically have to use it or it will find a way to be used. - The alternative would be to go through the wizard list and remove basically any spell aside those that are more wizard style. Like Mordekainen, Bigby etc. The spells that were invented by wizards.

It was a bit curious how those spells were usable by sorcerers, but I try to not argue with people that can melt faces on a whim.
I'm on board with your reasoning.

It would be interesting to see what spells (if any) really seem like a sorcerer *shouldn't* be able to do.

As you say, the *named* ones seem like good candidates, but only really in that they are named for Wizards. Their *effects* don't seem not-Sorcerous, really.

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Infammo

First Post
It would be interesting to see what spells (if any) really seem like a sorcerer *shouldn't* be able to do.

As you say, the *named* ones seem like good candidates, but only really in that they are named for Wizards. Their *effects* don't seem not-Sorcerous, really.

Very few indeed. Most of the spell selection available by WotC from the start seem to have been placed around the 'blaster' archetype they placed sorcerer in. With very few spells that do not deal direct damage, or controls the battlefield.

For instance, a sorcerer so powerful that by sheer personality and power can create their own demiplane is just an awesome thing. At the same time, they still gave sorcerers access to complicated spells, such as teleportation circle. In the end, vastly expanding the sorcerer list like this has very little negative effect. As a sorcerer can only learn a max of 15 different spells from level 17 and a known one on each level up. Aside from anything a DM cooks up, that is.

Most of the spell choices in vanilla make little sense in the end. Why would a sorcerer be unable to cast a spells such as Flesh to stone or Forcecage? As notable examples. The latter has ruby dust as a component. (not consumed) But a sorcerer can cast stoneskin which has diamond dust, which is consumed.

Over all, the big intent of the conversion alteration are to make the base points you receive a valuable commodity. As they can be turned to spells at a reasonable rate, while the ones you get from sacrificing spell slots are ideal for Metamagic. It is not something you have to do, but it is then an option. And as there is no re-conversion, this stops attempts to break the system in that direction.

Edit: A way to further distill the feature just struck me. By removing the one-way conversion sub-clauses and adding this tidbit, the same effect with clearer language and the same balancing portion appears.

You can spend sorcery points up to an amount equal to your current level to create new spell slots between each long rest.

This works splendidly, as your total sorcery point pool is always equal to your current level. And it maintains the one-way conversion example meant to stop economy exploits, but without the need of extra book-keeping. The main feature has been updated to reflect this.
 
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Gadget

Adventurer
I've always felt the Sorcerer needed more to differentiate itself, rather than make it more similar to the wizard. In 3e (the only 'past edition' you are referring to), the Sorcerer was distinguished by spontaneous casting, something that can no longer be a distinguishing characteristic. I would like to see the Sorcerer get more meta magic options sooner, rather than spend at least half an adventuring career with two or less.
 

Infammo

First Post
I've always felt the Sorcerer needed more to differentiate itself, rather than make it more similar to the wizard. In 3e (the only 'past edition' you are referring to), the Sorcerer was distinguished by spontaneous casting, something that can no longer be a distinguishing characteristic. I would like to see the Sorcerer get more meta magic options sooner, rather than spend at least half an adventuring career with two or less.

Sorry about that. I am rather stuck in the mindset of thinking of pathfinder sorcerers as a 'past edition.' - Not to mention ending up thinking of 3rd and 3.5 as different. I did look over the economy and changed level 5 spells to a cost of 7 points. Making it a scale that jumps one point after two spell level increases. A fifth being so close to a fourth did not feel right.

In 5e, the closest to it all feels like the vanilla sorcerer just lacks that bit of extra bang for their bucks at the levels 1-10. They tend to end up being in need of long rests a lot, when other classes can extend a bit with a short rest. So I figured that at least the better economy on spell slot and point conversion would give that extra mile that the other classes seem to enjoy with their resources.

As for the Metamagic, I get what you are saying. From the start, I end up looking at subtle spell, always wanting it for that delightful flavour that is casting without component. So useful and also makes a sorcerer very hard to contain if they know spells that does not require material components. Plenty of good choices there, even if extend and distant are a bit too situational for my taste.

And there is that rather feeble aspect of their level 20 feature being sorcery points on a short rest. Just feels like an insult to the low level sorcs. "That thing you wanted? It is here at the level you will almost never reach."
 
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discosoc

First Post
I've always felt the Sorcerer needed more to differentiate itself, rather than make it more similar to the wizard. In 3e (the only 'past edition' you are referring to), the Sorcerer was distinguished by spontaneous casting, something that can no longer be a distinguishing characteristic. I would like to see the Sorcerer get more meta magic options sooner, rather than spend at least half an adventuring career with two or less.

I think sorcerers are a solution looking for a problem. In 3e, they were designed for players that wanted to throw spells around, but didn't want to deal with the -- pardon the pun -- booking and planning involved with a wizard, with the tradeoff being less versatility beyond killing people. With baseline offensive cantrips, their niche just doesn't stand out as much.

Further complicating the matter is how Warlocks seem to have been designed with ideas that probably should have been used in the Sorcerer, at perhaps just combine the two classes entirely and have the warlock be a specialization. Speaking of specializations, I don't think it's an accident that the Sorcerer has only single viable specialization and the other being kind of a tacked on RNG-when-the-DM-feels-like-it experience that basically nobody takes.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
It would be interesting to see what spells (if any) really seem like a sorcerer *shouldn't* be able to do.

Debatable, but I think it makes sense for Sorcerers not to have access to spells with long casting times. It could be justified by saying that those spells are too intricate to spontaneously arise from in-born magical powers.
 

Li Shenron

Legend
I think sorcerers are a solution looking for a problem. In 3e, they were designed for players that wanted to throw spells around, but didn't want to deal with the -- pardon the pun -- booking and planning involved with a wizard, with the tradeoff being less versatility beyond killing people. With baseline offensive cantrips, their niche just doesn't stand out as much.

I still can't shrug the feeling that WotC maybe has done a terrible mistake with Sorcerers.

As you say, the Sorcerer originated in 3e for the specific purposes of providing an easy-to-play Wizard (because a lot of beginners want to start with a spellcaster just because it's cool) and introducing essentially a non-vancian spellcasting option into the game (for a few long-term gamers who never liked it).

Then, in 3e they designed it under the idea "more spells per day, less spells known" (you can do less things but more often), but because spontaneous casting was still a striking advantage against vancian casting, they also delayed spell level advancement by 1 Sorcerer level, compared to Wizard/Cleric/Druid.

Fast-forward to 5e and we got a huge update on spellcasting rules, and now everyone has the same progression of spells levels and daily slots. The Sorcerer concept of being "strategically inferior, tactically superior" is supposed to remain. They start the design from the "strategically inferior" hence less spells known. And then they keep the "you don't need to prepare your spells" as think this still means "tactically superior" but it doesn't! Because what it really means when combined with less spells known, is that in practice every Wizard prepares about as many spells as a Sorcerer knows, meaning that the Wizard is essentially equivalent to a Sorcerer that can change the list of spells known on a daily basis...

At this points, they should have realized that this means there is ZERO tactical superiority in the Sorcerer's not having to prepare spells, so the tactical superiority should be provided by another class feature...

Enter the spell points. This is a good idea, because they mean either metamagic (boost spell power) or extra daily slots ("more spells per day" is back).

But then something else happened... at some point during the 5e playtest a few key Wizard playtesters (some of which are known people in the industry) demanded to add what became the Arcane Recovery feature.

Now try to make some calculations on how many spell slots a Wizard (at different class levels) can recover using Arcane Recovery, and compare it with how many spell slots a Sorcerer (at equivalent levels) can create using Spell Points, and you'll get very close numbers. The Wizard is slightly more restricted (she can't recover slots she hasn't used yet, and she has to recover all those slots in a single short rest, while the Sorcerer can do so quickly if needed), but it still remains the fact that a Sorcerer basically does not cast more spells than a Wizard on a given day, she casts about the same amount. And worse, she has to completely give up her unique* ability of metamagic, if she wants to cast the same amount (not more!) of spells as the Wizard.

*unique so far, because I bet that early or late Wizard-fans will manage to get metamagic for the Wizard too

The tactical advantantage of metamagic is too small by itself. It could be big, but unfortunately for the Sorcerer it's diminished by the following:
(a) every caster can already use the core mechanism of augmenting spells by casting them using a higher slot to get (some) effects similar to metamagic
(b) a Wizard just knows more spells, and can use similar spells of different levels to achieve a similar tactical flexibility
(c) a Sorcerer knows only 2 metamagic effects below level 10, which is where probably >80% of the adventures are played (and then 3 below level 17, where probably >95% of the adventures are played), and that's very little for flexibility
 

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