Sorcerer vs. Warmage

[Savage Wombat]

So, does anyone else think the Warmage makes the Sorcerer look as weak as we always thought it was?

Basically, both classes cast the same number of spells per day, and (from my experience) cast from a very similar list.

But in exchange for giving up the Sorcerer's versatility, the Warmage gets...

Better HP
Better BAB
Better AC
Better Damage
and a whole bunch of bonus feats.

What's the sorcerer get? Oh wow, he gets a familiar. Whee!

Am I wrong?

 

[Falling Icicle]

Am I wrong?

You're exactly right. Also, one huge advantage the Warmage has that you didn't mention is that he knows all of the spells on the Warmage list automatically. The Sorcerer is left with few choices and learns new spells very slowly. Combined with their spontaneous casting, this is extremely powerful. This class needs to be toned down - alot. The only real drawback they seem to have is that all of their spells are offensive, but that's usually the role I've seen Sorcerers play anyways.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Hmm...

No shield.

No fly.

No detect magic.

No scry.

No charm.

No dispel.

No teleport.

Ever.

In exchange, the warmage gains some more combat ability, which is still not going to keep him alive much longer if he's forced into melee; a few bonus feats; and the ability to cast a whole mess of offensive spells, many of which duplicate each other.

Give me the sorcerer any day of the week, and twice on Sunday. The warmage isn't a bad class, but I'd only ever play it if it really fit the character concept. I've never played, or seen played, a sorcerer who cast nothing but damage-dealing spells, and almost every sorcerer I've played/seen played had at least a few, if not all, of the spells listed above.

Frankly, if there's any overbalance at all in the comparison, I think it's on the side of the sorcerer.

 

[Particle_Man]

The sorceror can still do the "fly-Improved Invisibility-[Insert Blast Spell Here]" trifecta, while the Warmage cannot.

 

[Mouseferatu]

And BTW, where did you get the idea the warmage has better BAB? I don't know about the version in the Miniatures Handbook, but the one in Complete Arcane has the same BAB progression as the wizard and sorcerer.

 

[Horishijin]

They have no utility spells. The only way they can detect magic is try to blow an object up. If it doesn't melt; then it is probably magic.

I agree that to play a warmage you need to have a concept. They can blend well with other classes to make a very interesting fighter/mage type. The warmage I am playing now is 4th level, and will next take three levels of human paragon (gain longsword proficiency, +2 caster levels, and +2 chosen stat; probably strength, and decent BAB) and then mix up Warmage with intermittent Havoc Mage (also from Miniatures Handbook) so he can sling lower-level (but still damaging!) spells and a swing a sword, at close range, with impunity. It ends up being a tough-guy mage who pretends not to be a mage, at least that is how I play it.

 

[Brennin Magalus]

So, does anyone else think the Warmage makes the Sorcerer look as weak as we always thought it was?

Yes. This is one of the many reasons I heartily recommend Monte Cook's sorcerer.

 

[GandhitheBFG]

monte cook's sorceror? where would i find it/what's different?

 

[Glyfair]

And BTW, where did you get the idea the warmage has better BAB? I don't know about the version in the Miniatures Handbook, but the one in Complete Arcane has the same BAB progression as the wizard and sorcerer.

The Miniatures Handbook one does, also. The only difference I really see between the two versions is the spell list.

 

[Testament]

I'll take the sorc, any day. All a warmage does is blow stuff up. Horishijin's explanation of a Warmage's detect magic is like my explanation of a Warmage's knock.

They can't fly. They can't teleport, or dim door, or go invisible, or detect, or dispel. I'm sorry, but even getting armour and the hideously broken sudden spells, with an average 2 HP more per level isn't worth giving all that up.