Sorcerer vs. Warmage

[ThoughtfulOwl]

So, does anyone else think the Warmage makes the Sorcerer look as weak as we always thought it was?

Basically, both classes cast the same number of spells per day, and (from my experience) cast from a very similar list.

In my experience, the biggest weakness of the Sorcerer isn't the limit on spell known or the lack of other class features, but the widely held assumption that those spell known should be filled with blasting spells; not to mention that blasting is overrated, considering that monster HPs inflate so much faster at higher levels.

The Warmage just provides a more efficient class for people who want to play the walking artillery, but for a more well-rounded spellcaster I'd pick the Sorcerer any day of the week and diversify his spell selection as much as possible.

Just consider how single-minded the Warmage is: no illusions to deceive, no enchantments to sway, no abjurations to protect... even in a pure hack-n-slash game, the lack of anything but direct attacks is a big drawback that keeps the class in line.

 

[Emiricol]

So, does anyone else think the Warmage makes the Sorcerer look as weak as we always thought it was?

All I can say for sure is that no one ever played a sorcerer in my campaign(s). If anyone, ever, at any point, wants to play this new PC class it'll beat the Sorcerer by 100%.

 

[Felon]

Just consider how single-minded the Warmage is: no illusions to deceive, no enchantments to sway, no abjurations to protect... even in a pure hack-n-slash game, the lack of anything but direct attacks is a big drawback that keeps the class in line.

Yep, no hold monster--which can make for a much shorter battle than just toossing lightning bolts all day. Not even basic staples like web and grease.

 

[Thanee]

So, does anyone else think the Warmage makes the Sorcerer look as weak as we always thought it was?

Am I wrong?

IMHO, yes, you are wrong.

The warmage will pretty much always have the right spell to blast the enemy, while the sorcerer (or any other spellcaster for that matter) will often have to resort to sub par spells, that's right.

The warmage is a good class for sure and a very good offensive spellcaster (about the level (or maybe even a bit more than that) of the Psion in that behalf, but lacking considerably in any other (defense, utility)), but the utter lack of any non-offensive spell is a huge disadvantage.

A good sorcerer has a handful of offensive spells only, all the others are defensive and utility.

To balance this lack, armor and the better BAB/HP are good, with a few buffs the warmage could wade into combat, oh wait... no buffs... well anyways, the sorcerer is the better spellcaster by far. Only real lack there are the bonus feats (and some skill points/class skills), the sorcerer should have those, too, really.

A warmage with Arcane Disciple (Competition) would be pretty nasty, or not?
Can they make use of that feat? I guess it would be pretty damn good in any case as they automatically get all the spells as spells known.
Heh. Just spend 3-4 feats on Arcane Disciple.

Bye
Thanee

 

[exile]

This is just a little off-topic, but when picking spells for my sorcerer's (not that I have made taht many), I try to give some though to their sorcerous origins and pick spells that work thematically with that.

Sometimes, when I don't even have a good sorcerous opinion, I think of the fledgeling sorcerer character as a superhero and pick spells that simulate a spectrum of super powers.

I think this makes for more interesting (if potentially less potent) sorcerers.

There was a good Dragon article (or two) that looked at sorcerer orgins and had spell lists tailored to each. Take a look at it (if osmeone could post which issue it was in).

I guess this post really just reiterates what everyone else has said in defense of the sorcerer...it has versatility that the warmage lacks. Both have role-playing potential though.

Chad

 

[Chun-tzu]

To balance this lack, armor and the better BAB/HP are good, with a few buffs the warmage could wade into combat, oh wait... no buffs... well anyways, the sorcerer is the better spellcaster by far.

For the sake of clarification, the Warmage has the same BAB as a sorcerer (as mentioned earlier).

A warmage with Arcane Disciple (Competition) would be pretty nasty, or not?
Can they make use of that feat? I guess it would be pretty damn good in any case as they automatically get all the spells as spells known.
Heh. Just spend 3-4 feats on Arcane Disciple.

Hey, now that's an interesting idea. Yes, Warmages can take the feat. And even though they get more benefit than other arcane spellcasters (since they automatically know all spells on their spell list), it's still pretty balanced, since the domain spells are based on Wisdom. The Warmage still needs a high enough Wis to cast the domain spells, and Wis is a dump stat for Warmages, Sorcerers, and Wizards alike. Any resources spent toward boosting Wis could have been easily spent toward other abilities, so those extra domain spells come with a significant cost.

 

[DungeonmasterCal]

Is this Arcane Disciple from Complete Arcane? I'm gonna have to get this book, I guess. My local bookstore is not an FLGS, but a chain, and it's always 3 weeks behind the mom and pop shops getting gaming books (but nothing else. Everything else always arrives on release date. This really hacks me off).

 

[Chun-tzu]

Arcane Disciple is from Complete Divine. It allows arcane spellcasters access to spells from one clerical domain, but the spells are Wis-based. Domain spells can still only be cast once per day.

 

[Horishijin]

Hey, now that's an interesting idea. Yes, Warmages can take the feat. And even though they get more benefit than other arcane spellcasters (since they automatically know all spells on their spell list), it's still pretty balanced, since the domain spells are based on Wisdom. The Warmage still needs a high enough Wis to cast the domain spells, and Wis is a dump stat for Warmages, Sorcerers, and Wizards alike. Any resources spent toward boosting Wis could have been easily spent toward other abilities, so those extra domain spells come with a significant cost.

In a similar vein, and something I have also considered, but it does not fit my character concept, how about Warmage combined with Exalted Arcanist (BoED)? You quickly gain an expanded spell list over the five levels of the prestige class, and many of those are utility type spells like bless or holy aura. I believe that charisma remains the primary casting stat even for the somewhat "cleric" oriented aditional spells.

 

[kenobi65]

One more point to remember - a sorceror can vastly expand on the spells at their disposal by use of scrolls, while a warmage is limited only to the very few spells on their list.

Ditto for wands.