Sorry, but have I been missing out on the ELH analysis?

[kibbitz]

You know what's funny? I will more likely use Epic Level Handbook than Deities and Demigods.

I prefer a campaign where mortals can aspire to deity-level status. Therefore, my deities will be using powers from the ELH, rather than the abilities from Deities and Demigods. They will have divine powers, but their avatars will be more like epic-level characters than untouchable avatars. Still untouchable, but not by other Epics.

Also, the monsters in the ELH will be usable as both world-destroying terrors and as some of the more primal gods in my campaign setting.

Since I won't be playing with this any time soon, the playability of the material isn't the main concern. The thing is, if I buy the ELH and look through it, will I be inspired, or will I go 'BLEH!" and throw it aside? Of course, the only way that I can confirm this is by grabbing a copy and browsing it, which will need to wait till I find time to visit the nearest game shop. In the meantime, I am asking around and looking at reviews to see how entertaining and inspiring a read it will be... so far, mixed reviews and very few...

Psion and Joshua Dyal seem to share the same opinion, and obviously, there are people who will find it useful. Just mining for opinions as to how it proves useful/inspiring for others

Thanks, people. Though I must say it's a pleasure to have replies from 4 "known" people since my first time posting in a while

 

[CRGreathouse]

I enjoyed the ELH. While there are sections where balance concerns can be debated endlessly, there's a lot to look at.

Epic spells, for example, are very creative on the whole: verdigris tsunami, an attack spell, is an explosion of plant life. There are spells to raise islands from the ocean, create new forms of life, and ward off spells.

There's limited time travel, a "living" spell, and many other creative ones. A personal favorite flavor text (momento mori): "Your passing thought connotes death for the target."

Of course, it's not all good -- there are stupid ones like hellball (lots of energy damage in a 30-foot radius, yawn), contingent resurrection, and a word-play-ish spell mass frog.

The items are generally less exciting; cabinet of feasting, gate key (do-it-yourself portals), bracers of relentless might (become big, strong, and tough), etc.

The monsters are very good. A few basic ones are just stronger versions of existing monsters, but most are creative and fitting. The picture of a gigantic cold creature with white dragons on its shoulder is priceless...

 

[ColonelHardisson]

The book is useful for game play, but I don't think it's an inspiring book overall. That is, it's not likely to make someone who hasn't been playing feel an urgent need to get a game together.

The feats are generally useful, but not terribly imaginative overall. The spells are imaginative, for the most part, but a lot of them have costs and prereqs so high that, as I said for Vengeful Gaze of God, only a deity could use them. The monsters are very, very good. The epic level city setting material is, in my opinion, wasted space. I found it mildly interesting, but I didn't feel motivated to use it.

The book is kind of bland, to be honest. I've used it for NPCs, and it'll be used when PCs get above 20th level level, but it's not the type of book that I drag out just to leaf through for its own sake.

 

[kibbitz]

Noted... though I guess I was wishing for something awe-inspiring and stimulating. Sigh.

 

[MeepoTheMighty]

Agreed. It's a decent book for what it is, but if you're looking for awe-inspiring, get Book of the Righteous. That book is just damn good.

 

[Squire James]

I think it's nearly impossible for a book with a long lead-up time (and ELH probably had the longest in the industry) to surprise anyone, and you need to surprise a person to induce awe or stimulation. I call it the Wish-granting Genie rule... if it's hyped too much, a wish-granting genie can't live up to the hype!

That being said, I have some players that seem real excited to be passing level 20 and finally being able to get some of those special abilities that have been strictly in Monsterland for the last two years!

The Union setting did give me the idea to make the city of Sigil an "epic" city, where the forces that hold the devas and devils apart finally have stats! Even the Lady of Pain... though learning her race, templates, and class levels is an "uber-dark" as citizens of Sigil would put it (ie: I won't even post them in the off-chance one of my players is on the board... except to say she's over 50th level). And all those innocent-looking razorvine-trimming dabuses... they don't LOOK like 30th level monks now do they?

 

[kibbitz]

I think it's nearly impossible for a book with a long lead-up time (and ELH probably had the longest in the industry) to surprise anyone, and you need to surprise a person to induce awe or stimulation. I call it the Wish-granting Genie rule... if it's hyped too much, a wish-granting genie can't live up to the hype!

That being said, I have some players that seem real excited to be passing level 20 and finally being able to get some of those special abilities that have been strictly in Monsterland for the last two years!

The Union setting did give me the idea to make the city of Sigil an "epic" city, where the forces that hold the devas and devils apart finally have stats! Even the Lady of Pain... though learning her race, templates, and class levels is an "uber-dark" as citizens of Sigil would put it (ie: I won't even post them in the off-chance one of my players is on the board... except to say she's over 50th level). And all those innocent-looking razorvine-trimming dabuses... they don't LOOK like 30th level monks now do they?

Well, don't know about long leadup times. Never had it on my mind until friends mentioned it recently. I was wondering how epic the book will be, considering the material it's dealing with, and from all accounts, it sounds like Santa's come with a lot of char and DM goodies, but they're the same old stuff for the most part, with some extra gloss

As for your players being excited, that's wonderful Just don't go overboard on the toys and goodies Anyway, personally, I would keep the Lady of Pain unstatted. That's just my way of doing things Wonder what kind of epic modrons you'd be fielding, teeheehee

 

[Psion]

Y'know, Squire James, there are people who would HOWL if they heard you had statted out the Lady of Pain. I know, I've tried the experiment by JOKING about it when ELH came out on the PSML. But AFAIC, all this "never stat out the Lady of Pain" is just fanboy fealty too thick even for me. AFAIAC, so long as the stats don't show up in a book... who cares?

Anyways, I read the monster section a little closer yesterday... and all I could say is Ow Ow Ow Ow... But I did get some ideas for my campaign. I never really read the walking iceberg abomination that closely, and it gave me a really cool idea for my campaign. Y'see, I have always had this "mysterious iceberg" that permanently floated in the middle of a bay in the north that radiated intense cold. The players of an old campaign went there and discovered that it was the domicile of a silver dragon mage.

But maybe that wasn't the whole story. Perhaps it wasn't just his lair. Perhaps he was a guardian, meant to keep something horrible from awakening...

 

[kibbitz]

Y'know, Squire James, there are people who would HOWL if they heard you had statted out the Lady of Pain. I know, I've tried the experiment by JOKING about it when ELH came out on the PSML. But AFAIC, all this "never stat out the Lady of Pain" is just fanboy fealty too thick even for me. AFAIAC, so long as the stats don't show up in a book... who cares?

Anyways, I read the monster section a little closer yesterday... and all I could say is Ow Ow Ow Ow... But I did get some ideas for my campaign. I never really read the walking iceberg abomination that closely, and it gave me a really cool idea for my campaign. Y'see, I have always had this "mysterious iceberg" that permanently floated in the middle of a bay in the north that radiated intense cold. The players of an old campaign went there and discovered that it was the domicile of a silver dragon mage.

But maybe that wasn't the whole story. Perhaps it wasn't just his lair. Perhaps he was a guardian, meant to keep something horrible from awakening...

Sealing in "living ice", protecting the contents from the caresses of daylight and the hands of mere mortals? Sounds good, I guess. Though I'm getting images of some of those monster movies where the big bad monster has remained dormant, sealed in ice, only to reawaken and wreak havoc after some people manage to screw things up one way or another.

The interesting idea would be to have the PCs free the thing somehow unintentionally while hunting some lesser evil (perhaps a nemesis of theirs?). Get them to crack the seal intentionally without being aware of the greater consequences (the seal could have been broken accidentally, or it may be intentional to acquire some minor edge to defeat the nemesis). Few months down the road, monster ravages place, players track monster back to its lair and look in horror as they find out that they're responsible for everything?

 

[Henry]

...I never really read the walking iceberg abomination that closely, and it gave me a really cool idea for my campaign.

The Xixecal (the walking iceberg) was in fact one of the "primal gods" I was referring to.

BTW, those things normally come perched with FAMILIES of white dragons on their shoulders.