Soulborn Reborn

[emoplato]

Corny I know, but a much needed reboot. This class had almost everything wrong going for it. One, it had no special mechanic to set it apart from its much more mature brother(Incarnate) and its crazy, but oh so fun, cousin(Totemist). Instead it just has less Incarnum and had mainly saved based melds even though older brother could hijack them and do it better as well as much earlier. They also were pigeon-holed into corner alignments even though yet again the Incarnate could play it much better. Thematically it also was just copying the alignment theme living in the Incarnate's shadow. So, I thought I should break those chains and give it its own theme of Incarnum.

Soulborn​

Description: Many fighters look to the warriors of past in appreciation or even reverence for their great achievements, but a Soulborn embodies them. They seek to embed themselves into the very experiences, emotions, and actions of those long past to hone their skill beyond what any mere fighter is capable of.
Alignment: A Soulborn may be of any alignment. After all, they look to emulate and integrate any technique or philosophy for combat perfection. A lawful Soulborn may look to emulate a hero of their own culture's past to uphold those ideals to the fullest. A chaotic Soulborn often will seek to adapt many forms to make their own morals.
Weapon and Armor Proficiencies: as a fighter
Skills: (2+Int. mod.)x4: Concentration, Craft, Knowledge(history), Spellcraft, Profession, Ride, Handle Animal, Jump, Bluff
BAB: Full
Fort.: Good
Ref.: Poor
Will: Poor
Hit Die: d10
Class Features
Meldshaping: Like all other meldshaping classes they need a full nights rest and one hour of meditation to shape their soulmelds, in which they are prepared for the day. At first level a Soulborn may shape one soulmeld and has an essential pool of one. They gain one soulmeld every three levels. Their essential pool increases on every three out of four levels. At the fifth level and five levels after they gain a chakra bind and can bind up to a throat, waist chakra at level eighteen. A Soulborn’s meldshaper level is equal to their class level.
Soulmelds: Soulborns have soulmelds based upon fighting forms and boosting physical prowess. Unlike other soulmelds the descriptors are based upon attribute scores in which the fighting form emulates. Many of the Soulborn soulmelds gain scaling bonuses with the meldshaping level if their descriptor matches the paradigm. Those that allow saves are wisdom based.
(Ex)Paradigm attribute: At first level a Soulborn chooses a physical attribute in which they want to focus on and develop as they ascend levels in the class. They receive bonus skills based upon which attribute they chose. While choosing a paradigm attribute they must also select an opposition. Upon selecting an opposition they forfeit the soulmelds with that attribute descriptor.
Might: Jump, Swim, Intimidate, Climb
Agility: Tumble, Move Silently, Hide, Sleight of Hand
Stamina: Heal, Survival, Listen, Spot
At level 5 they receive another bonus based on which attribute they have chosen.
Might: +2 to damage rolls on all physical attacks
Agility: 10 foot speed bonus to all forms of movement
Stamina: +2 to all saves
At level 10 they also receive an ability based upon which one they have selected.
Might: They become inured to strength penalties. They also may apply their full strength bonus to damage rolls in the off-hand whenever they are fighting with multiple weapons.
Agility: They receive the uncanny dodge ability. If they obtain uncanny dodge through other means they get improved uncanny dodge.
Stamina: They receive the mettle ability.
At level 15 they again receive another set of abilities.
Might: All types of physical attacks reduce an enemy’s damage reduction equal to their strength modifier.
Agility: They obtain freedom of movement to all forms of natural terrain. They also receive the evasion feature as a rogue. If they possess evasion from another source and meet the conditions for it they get improved evasion.
Stamina: They may add their constitution modifier as a deflection bonus to their AC.
At level 19 their paradigm attribute becomes immune to any ability damage or drain.
Expand Essentia Capacity: At level 4 the maximum amount of essentia that can be invested into any feat, racial, and class ability is expanded by 1. This happens again at level 17.
Bonus feats: At levels 3, 9, and 16 a Soulborn may chose feats from the fighter list as well as any with the incarnum descriptor.
Form Displacement: At level 8 and every four levels after as a swift action a Soulborn may transfer essentia in and/or out of incarnum feats.
Essentia fused body: At level 13 all incarnum feats, class, and racial abilities are treated as if they have one point essentia invested in them.
Incarnum Perfection: No longer can a Soulborn’s body age natural or magically. Also once per day they may treat all their incarnum feats, class, and racial abilities as fully invested.
I know that they would also need a whole new set of soulmelds. I was wondering if people could offer some ideas on what they should be. A couple I was thinking one could offer sneak attack, maybe another for minor skirmish. Please post your ideas and offer some criticism.

 

[emoplato]

No one?

 

[emoplato]

Not many fans of Incarnum on here?

 

[Rampant]

Ok looking at these guys I see a few problems.

For starters yes it's very incomplete and in need of some clean up work, however I think I can help out with a few ideas.

Also some of the abilities read like a martial incarnate, EEC, EFB, and IP, being my examples.

Ok how important is the ability score boosting? if it's not important, ditch it, if it is re-arrange it so they're not getting a +2 bonus on the first level of a class with perfect bab, the level dipping would be incessant.

Quite a few of the abilities don't mention duration limits, or things of that nature, especially important for abilities with multiple uses per day. Furthermore the bonus feat arrangement is just plain odd.

Ok next up lets look at the concept here. By binding the souls of heroes past you get some of their legendary power, this takes the form of soulmelds or abilities like soulmelds based around martial applications of the three physical ability scores. Am I following this correctly?

That's actually kinda perfect, the Incarnate works with the energy of outsiders and paragons of the various alignments, the totemists with the souls of the unsoothed savage beasts, and the soulborn with the power of mortal heroes. Very nice.

Execution however needs some work, first off these guys have to have history, and possibly the martial lore skill from To9S, as class skills. I mean if the whole schtick is based on heroes of the past, you might even consider taking the choice out of the player's hands and grant free history ranks as a class feature, though that would be a touch extreme.

My advice would be to choose an array of archetypes instead of ability scores, even if the archetypes are based on ability scores. Consider Mighty Hero, Quick Hero, and Enduring Hero, since that's a good way of saying str, dex, and con, without saying str, dex, and con.

Then depending on their choice they get access to a special ability/unique soulmeld that gives bonuses in line with the archetype. Then I'd say to scan MoI for soulmelds that are appropriate (avoid the aligned ones for example) and break those down into smaller lists corresponding to one or more of the archetypes, making a mighty hero list, a quick hero list, and an enduring hero list (there can be some overlap but try to keep it balanced out between the three so that one or two archetypes don't end up eating the other one). Fill in gaps with custom melds if desired or needed.

Ok the next thing to consider is composition, this class has a few major things it's trying to cover.

Martial class : High HD, and Bab, weapon and armor proficiencies
Meld Shaper : Soulmelds, essentia, chakra?
Archetype/style : Unique melds or abilities for the three styles
Other: Bonus feats, and non archetype dependent abilities

the question is how much do you wanna invest in any given aspect?

does the class have to be a perfect bab, d10er? or can we weaken their martial class structure in favor of more archetype or meld shaping abilities?

 

[emoplato]

Ok looking at these guys I see a few problems.

For starters yes it's very incomplete and in need of some clean up work, however I think I can help out with a few ideas.

Also some of the abilities read like a martial incarnate, EEC, EFB, and IP, being my examples.

Ok how important is the ability score boosting? if it's not important, ditch it, if it is re-arrange it so they're not getting a +2 bonus on the first level of a class with perfect bab, the level dipping would be incessant.

Quite a few of the abilities don't mention duration limits, or things of that nature, especially important for abilities with multiple uses per day. Furthermore the bonus feat arrangement is just plain odd.

Ok next up lets look at the concept here. By binding the souls of heroes past you get some of their legendary power, this takes the form of soulmelds or abilities like soulmelds based around martial applications of the three physical ability scores. Am I following this correctly?

That's actually kinda perfect, the Incarnate works with the energy of outsiders and paragons of the various alignments, the totemists with the souls of the unsoothed savage beasts, and the soulborn with the power of mortal heroes. Very nice.

Execution however needs some work, first off these guys have to have history, and possibly the martial lore skill from To9S, as class skills. I mean if the whole schtick is based on heroes of the past, you might even consider taking the choice out of the player's hands and grant free history ranks as a class feature, though that would be a touch extreme.

My advice would be to choose an array of archetypes instead of ability scores, even if the archetypes are based on ability scores. Consider Mighty Hero, Quick Hero, and Enduring Hero, since that's a good way of saying str, dex, and con, without saying str, dex, and con.

Then depending on their choice they get access to a special ability/unique soulmeld that gives bonuses in line with the archetype. Then I'd say to scan MoI for soulmelds that are appropriate (avoid the aligned ones for example) and break those down into smaller lists corresponding to one or more of the archetypes, making a mighty hero list, a quick hero list, and an enduring hero list (there can be some overlap but try to keep it balanced out between the three so that one or two archetypes don't end up eating the other one). Fill in gaps with custom melds if desired or needed.

Ok the next thing to consider is composition, this class has a few major things it's trying to cover.

Martial class : High HD, and Bab, weapon and armor proficiencies
Meld Shaper : Soulmelds, essentia, chakra?
Archetype/style : Unique melds or abilities for the three styles
Other: Bonus feats, and non archetype dependent abilities

the question is how much do you wanna invest in any given aspect?

does the class have to be a perfect bab, d10er? or can we weaken their martial class structure in favor of more archetype or meld shaping abilities?

1. Yeah, I know because one of the ideas with Incarnum is they have a lot of options even based upon which class you choose. The Tome of Battle I regard as another system book so I want to regard that as its own critter. Oops forgot the hit die, changed that.
2. Well, the attributes aren't necessary but despite how I trashed the original they did have a good smite power and a couple of immunities worth of note. I wanted to keep, like the other base classes of Incarnum, the big abilities are in the soulmelds. The classes themselves provide smaller more sustainable benefits that give more system options rather outright power. The mechanical idea of this class is that it can actually expand the essentia capacity of abilities that aren't soulmelds, making them great starts for a couple of the prestige classes and rack up buffs from feats. Otherwise at most they would only be to invest 4, it also adds as a mechanic the ability to tap into and out of incarnum feats which would normally can only invest once for the day. It doesn't have quite as much Incarnum capability as the others having 6 soulmelds 16 essentia and 4 binds at level 20. It makes it up by having more fluidity with essentia, having it in stuff that applies more often ,and can't be taken away as easily.
3. I also wanted a way so that the other two can't just hijack it and leave it in the dust due to the way the Incarnum system is set up. The paradigm attributes also fuels side benefits each different and respective for each soulmeld/bind dependent on Soulborn level. If you read more carefully there is also opposition attributes in which they can't choose soulmelds with that descriptor. They don't have the same descriptors as the other using the attribute names associated with them. The ultimate idea is that the other two classes may dip in it and may be able to invest more essentia getting more general mileage, but they can't beat a Soulborn soulmelds of his paradigm attribute.
4. I first did want to give essentia invested in class abilities but then I realized it could easily consistently outshine many of the fighting classes because well the way Incarnum works is it gives overall untyped semi-permanent benefits the stack with everything else, not temporary. It is why I kept and expanded the bonus feat list.
5. So, yeah mainly I need help with soulmeld ideas unless you something else as a problem.

 

[Rampant]

I think a table with the the level and the name of the benefit might help your formatting a bit.

Make a separate chart for soul meld count, and essentia pool.



1. They should still get history as a class skill.

2. Little secret about Incarnum classes the: big abilities are not in fact in the soulmelds, it's in all the tricks you can pull with them, things like the full essentia investment in everything for x rounds stuff, or your chakra abilities. Which chakra you do or don't throw open really determines how much you wanna rely on standard melds, and since you only go up to waist it says to me that standard melds shouldn't be the defining feature.

What I'm trying to say is that you've got too much wrapped up in meldshaping, and not enough bonus incarnum feats for what you claim to be trying to do.

Like I said allowing a +2 to a chosen ability score at first level is a problem, especially for a class with perfect bab. That aspect needs to be pushed back a few levels or ditched.

Also the naming, calling a class ability after the ability scores is just kinda tacky, thus mighty, quick, and enduring.

3. I know that you've got it set up so that a str build has to choose to lose con or dex melds, that's why I want you to make a list of existing soulmelds that work for the class. Because It's easier to make a few melds to fill in gaps, and add new descriptors to the old ones than make a whole new set entirely. I mean pauldroons of health would be perfect for the con build, why re-write them?

4. Actually many meld bonuses have a type, usually insight, enhancement, resistance, dodge, or morale. Furthermore you generally have to give up an item slot to get the full benefit (chakra bind). Also don't be afraid to outshine people occasionally your class has to be good at something. As an incarnum user it should be adapting quickly by moving essentia into relevant abilities while draining it from non-relevant abilities.

 

[emoplato]

I think a table with the the level and the name of the benefit might help your formatting a bit.

Make a separate chart for soul meld count, and essentia pool.



1. They should still get history as a class skill.

2. Little secret about Incarnum classes the: big abilities are not in fact in the soulmelds, it's in all the tricks you can pull with them, things like the full essentia investment in everything for x rounds stuff, or your chakra abilities. Which chakra you do or don't throw open really determines how much you wanna rely on standard melds, and since you only go up to waist it says to me that standard melds shouldn't be the defining feature.

What I'm trying to say is that you've got too much wrapped up in meldshaping, and not enough bonus incarnum feats for what you claim to be trying to do.

Like I said allowing a +2 to a chosen ability score at first level is a problem, especially for a class with perfect bab. That aspect needs to be pushed back a few levels or ditched.

Also the naming, calling a class ability after the ability scores is just kinda tacky, thus mighty, quick, and enduring.

3. I know that you've got it set up so that a str build has to choose to lose con or dex melds, that's why I want you to make a list of existing soulmelds that work for the class. Because It's easier to make a few melds to fill in gaps, and add new descriptors to the old ones than make a whole new set entirely. I mean pauldroons of health would be perfect for the con build, why re-write them?

4. Actually many meld bonuses have a type, usually insight, enhancement, resistance, dodge, or morale. Furthermore you generally have to give up an item slot to get the full benefit (chakra bind). Also don't be afraid to outshine people occasionally your class has to be good at something. As an incarnum user it should be adapting quickly by moving essentia into relevant abilities while draining it from non-relevant abilities.

Okay how this instead of the direct attribute name associated it would be Might(strength), Stamina(constitution), and Agility(dexterity). Also before you mentioned EEC, IP, and EFB what do these stand for? Well, I am starting to compile the lists but looking at them I am starting to wonder if the opposite of what originally happen will occur. I am looking at them and they would be changed because of the benefits of being the paradigm of the soulborn. Now, while sucky ones such as the Airstep sandals(Agility obviously) could actually be made good(I was thinking that it could allow the player to act and move in areas of high wind/bad weather as a categories lower based upon Soulborn level). Would ones that need to be modified to apply to the class, such as some Totemist ones because the might list otherwise would be very small, become too powerful?

 

[Rampant]

Make the list of every meld you find appropriate, regardless of which class or whatever it originally comes from. Then post it so we have something to look at before we make too many decisions.

One thing you need to think about is gear selection, more precisely weapon choices. Is this weapon focused class? Is it a melee focused class? How much impact do you want the style choice to halve on the weapon armor selection?

 

[emoplato]

Agility: Airstep Sandals, Acrobat Boots, Cerulean Sandals, Fellmist Robe, Displacer Mantle, Impulse Boots, Lamia Belt, Phase cloak, Sighting gloves, Shadow Mantle, Theft Gloves, Threefold Mask of the Chimera, Worg Pelt

Stamina: Adamant Pauldrons, Pauldrons of Health, Vitality Belt, Wind Cloak, Enigma Helm, Shedu Crown, Keeneye Lenses, Strongheart Vestments, Spellward Shirt, Therapeutic Mantle

Might: Mauling Gauntlets, Bluesteel Bracers, Rageclaws, Wormtail Belt, Urskan Greaves, Thunderstep Boots, Dread Carapace, Girallon Arms, Gorgons mask, Kraken mantle

Obviously, I will be trading out some I just want to trace a theme in each list. Yes, I am very much looking towards a weapons oriented approach. Agility I am hoping for speed, skill/finesse tricks, stealth, and a ranged orientation. Stamina I want some immunities, more defense/health, resistances, but also control/obstruction, willing beat stick. Might would be about scaling damage, increased combat maneuver capability, more melee specialist.

 

[emoplato]

Make the list of every meld you find appropriate, regardless of which class or whatever it originally comes from. Then post it so we have something to look at before we make too many decisions.

One thing you need to think about is gear selection, more precisely weapon choices. Is this weapon focused class? Is it a melee focused class? How much impact do you want the style choice to halve on the weapon armor selection?

Hello