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Sources of Experience other than combat
- Thread starter Buttercup
- Start date
Moon_Goddess
Have I really been on this site for over 20 years!
Well, Traps have CRs so defeating them awards XPs, but other than that and combat, Officially, No other source of XPs exist. There has to be some risk in order to get experience.
But anyways, I myself and quite fond of the Story award, but it has to be worth something also, there are other kinds of risk than purly physical, and if you endure these I feel you deserve experience.
But anyways, I myself and quite fond of the Story award, but it has to be worth something also, there are other kinds of risk than purly physical, and if you endure these I feel you deserve experience.
SHARK
First Post
Greetings!
Hello Buttercup! Well, I assign experience point awards for all kinds of things. I usually assign a specified CR value of experience to various actions or experiences. For example, I assign travel awards based on a combination of range travelled, and uniqueness of the travel experience. So, if the party leaves the town they are in and travels 20 miles down river to a nearby village, that might be a CR 2 or CR 3 award. If they travelled 2500 miles to an ancinet land of fantastic Egyptian God-Kings, well, that might be a CR 10 award.
For social interactions, I might assign them a CR equal to the CR of the character that they made a friend of, if such was very important or even just very well done. These special circumstances aside, I generally assign about 10-30% of the scenario's total gross experience awards to each player as role-playing awards and so on.
Finally, if the group isn't necessarily pursuing any kind of "scenario" but simply playing to be playing, like hanging out in the city, attending Balls and parties, hanging out in bars, brothels, and nightclubs, looking for stuff in the markets, and doing research in the local libraries or attending Guild meetings, stuff like that, then I might just assign 500-1000 experience points to each character. After all, I want to reward the players for seeking to roleplay and do something besides try and kill everything, you know?
So, even if they want to spend all night shopping, and haggling with merchants, and dancing and socializing at the masquerade ball, fine. They will get some decent rewards for doing so, and having a good time. These times are used to enjoy playing their characters, getting to know their characters more by exploring their personalities, and for the characters, and the players, to interact and learn about the campaign world, and the community that they are currently in.
Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Hello Buttercup! Well, I assign experience point awards for all kinds of things. I usually assign a specified CR value of experience to various actions or experiences. For example, I assign travel awards based on a combination of range travelled, and uniqueness of the travel experience. So, if the party leaves the town they are in and travels 20 miles down river to a nearby village, that might be a CR 2 or CR 3 award. If they travelled 2500 miles to an ancinet land of fantastic Egyptian God-Kings, well, that might be a CR 10 award.
For social interactions, I might assign them a CR equal to the CR of the character that they made a friend of, if such was very important or even just very well done. These special circumstances aside, I generally assign about 10-30% of the scenario's total gross experience awards to each player as role-playing awards and so on.
Finally, if the group isn't necessarily pursuing any kind of "scenario" but simply playing to be playing, like hanging out in the city, attending Balls and parties, hanging out in bars, brothels, and nightclubs, looking for stuff in the markets, and doing research in the local libraries or attending Guild meetings, stuff like that, then I might just assign 500-1000 experience points to each character. After all, I want to reward the players for seeking to roleplay and do something besides try and kill everything, you know?
So, even if they want to spend all night shopping, and haggling with merchants, and dancing and socializing at the masquerade ball, fine. They will get some decent rewards for doing so, and having a good time. These times are used to enjoy playing their characters, getting to know their characters more by exploring their personalities, and for the characters, and the players, to interact and learn about the campaign world, and the community that they are currently in.Semper Fidelis,
SHARK
Risk? yes Traps and Creatures only? No.
I agree that XP rewards should reflect some sort of risk or challenge overcome. I disagree that traps and combat are the only things that cause that.
I tend to fudge CRs a little bit for important encounters and puzzles, the ones where there is risk involved. The "If I mismanage this encounter the entire enterprise is blown" sort, for example. I generally get a feel for the CR based on how high an applicable roll would have to be, and how important it is. So, an encounter with a hostile person that will require a Diplomacy roll of 15, and whose opinion can put a stop to your investigation will be CR 2 or maybe 3 higher than the party's level, whereas an easy encounter that will inconvenience you but not ruin your plans if you do it wrong would be 2 or 3 less.
I agree that XP rewards should reflect some sort of risk or challenge overcome. I disagree that traps and combat are the only things that cause that.
I tend to fudge CRs a little bit for important encounters and puzzles, the ones where there is risk involved. The "If I mismanage this encounter the entire enterprise is blown" sort, for example. I generally get a feel for the CR based on how high an applicable roll would have to be, and how important it is. So, an encounter with a hostile person that will require a Diplomacy roll of 15, and whose opinion can put a stop to your investigation will be CR 2 or maybe 3 higher than the party's level, whereas an easy encounter that will inconvenience you but not ruin your plans if you do it wrong would be 2 or 3 less.
The Sigil
Mr. 3000 (Words per post)
IIRC...
Also, I believe traps grant XP in one of three circumstances - (1) the trap is sprung (assumes the party survives the damage), (2) the trap is disarmed, (3) the trap is detected and bypassed (not 100% sure on this one, but it seems logical - noting that there is a trap and taking pains to avoid triggering it seems in my mind to be "overcoming the challenge"). It is not awarded if the party doesn't notice the trap and misses triggering the trap by dumb luck.
Story awards are mentioned, and I like using those.
I also award XP for non-combat skill checks critical to the PCs' success. You need to coax a favor out of the local fence? That is a challenge - and the PCs should receive XP for overcoming that - whether by gold or Diplomacy (or Intimidate) checks.
The PCs have to build a rope bridge to cross the chasm? That's a challenge - and the guy who uses his Use Rope skill to build the rope bridge and get them across gets the XP for overcoming it (probably with the help of the party's single potion of flying to affix the bridge to the other side of the chasm ). No, you're not dreaming, I just gave characters a reason to take the Use Rope skill - a challenge that needs the skill AND an XP award for doing so
Skill use, in my mind, is a woefully underused method of awarding PCs experience... after all, you use skills to overcome challenges, right? I use the following as a general guideline in these cases...
1.) Beating another character at an opposed skill roll (e.g., Bluff vs. Sense Motive) - CR of the character beaten if no retry is allowed; half XP if a retry is allowed - and each failed attempt knocks 20% off this award.
2.) Making a skill roll vs. a fixed DC (such as the Use Rope/chasm example), no retry allowed - CR 1 for a DC of 20, with the CR rising by 1 for each 2 points of DC increase.
3.) Making a skill roll vs. a fixed DC, with retry allowed - CR 1 for a DC of 23, with the CR rising by 1 for each 3 points of DC increase. Each failed attempt knocks 10% off this award. Taking 10 gets you half XP, taking 20 gets you 1/4 XP. Each attempt should cost something (gold, hit points, time in a time-critical situation, etc.) though, or it's not really a challenge to overcome.
Logic puzzles? That's a challenge to overcome. XP for that, too. Assigning a CR on this is a little trickier.
Use common sense - stuck doors are not something significant to overcome (hence the reason for skill roll vs. fixed DC with retry having a cost requirement). But ANYTHING that the characters have to overcome at cost (or potential cost) to themselves is a challenge and as such falls into the definition of "things that should grant XP awards." That's why they're called "Challenge Ratings" and not "Deadliness Ratings" or what have you, right?
--The Sigil
IIRC, the DMG explicitly states that XP is awarded for "overcoming" a challenge... and not necessarily by combat. Killing the giant outright is overcoming the challenge. Convincing him to chill out is overcoming the challenge. Running away and hiding until he's gone is NOT overcoming the challenge.Greatwyrm said:
Also, I believe traps grant XP in one of three circumstances - (1) the trap is sprung (assumes the party survives the damage), (2) the trap is disarmed, (3) the trap is detected and bypassed (not 100% sure on this one, but it seems logical - noting that there is a trap and taking pains to avoid triggering it seems in my mind to be "overcoming the challenge"). It is not awarded if the party doesn't notice the trap and misses triggering the trap by dumb luck.
Story awards are mentioned, and I like using those.
I also award XP for non-combat skill checks critical to the PCs' success. You need to coax a favor out of the local fence? That is a challenge - and the PCs should receive XP for overcoming that - whether by gold or Diplomacy (or Intimidate) checks.
The PCs have to build a rope bridge to cross the chasm? That's a challenge - and the guy who uses his Use Rope skill to build the rope bridge and get them across gets the XP for overcoming it (probably with the help of the party's single potion of flying to affix the bridge to the other side of the chasm
). No, you're not dreaming, I just gave characters a reason to take the Use Rope skill - a challenge that needs the skill AND an XP award for doing so Skill use, in my mind, is a woefully underused method of awarding PCs experience... after all, you use skills to overcome challenges, right? I use the following as a general guideline in these cases...
1.) Beating another character at an opposed skill roll (e.g., Bluff vs. Sense Motive) - CR of the character beaten if no retry is allowed; half XP if a retry is allowed - and each failed attempt knocks 20% off this award.
2.) Making a skill roll vs. a fixed DC (such as the Use Rope/chasm example), no retry allowed - CR 1 for a DC of 20, with the CR rising by 1 for each 2 points of DC increase.
3.) Making a skill roll vs. a fixed DC, with retry allowed - CR 1 for a DC of 23, with the CR rising by 1 for each 3 points of DC increase. Each failed attempt knocks 10% off this award. Taking 10 gets you half XP, taking 20 gets you 1/4 XP. Each attempt should cost something (gold, hit points, time in a time-critical situation, etc.) though, or it's not really a challenge to overcome.
Logic puzzles? That's a challenge to overcome. XP for that, too. Assigning a CR on this is a little trickier.
Use common sense - stuck doors are not something significant to overcome (hence the reason for skill roll vs. fixed DC with retry having a cost requirement). But ANYTHING that the characters have to overcome at cost (or potential cost) to themselves is a challenge and as such falls into the definition of "things that should grant XP awards." That's why they're called "Challenge Ratings" and not "Deadliness Ratings" or what have you, right?
--The Sigil
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Thanee
First Post
I usually give many XP for reaching goals or overcoming obstacles within the adventure, especially if the party made up some good plans and such to get there.
Combat experience is probably about the same (depends on the adventure, of course), but I tend to reduce the experience for combat encounters as given in the DMG, since they are really too much (unless you award almost no XP besides combat), especially against lower level threats. Combat experience is also scaled by the level of the PC (if there are any different levels around), with the FRCS method.
I do not award XP for roleplaying, except in very rare circumstances.
I rarely (if ever) give bonus XP to single characters. I don't want to award people for outshining others, but rather for cooperative play!
Bye
Thanee
Combat experience is probably about the same (depends on the adventure, of course), but I tend to reduce the experience for combat encounters as given in the DMG, since they are really too much (unless you award almost no XP besides combat), especially against lower level threats. Combat experience is also scaled by the level of the PC (if there are any different levels around), with the FRCS method.
I do not award XP for roleplaying, except in very rare circumstances.
I rarely (if ever) give bonus XP to single characters. I don't want to award people for outshining others, but rather for cooperative play!
Bye
Thanee
Kichwas
Half-breed, still living despite WotC racism
I use Story Based awards exclusively. The DMG mentions this but does not detail out a system for it.
So I've developed one of my own:
I use this system instead of using CRs. The DMG recommends that if you use anything other than just CRs for challenges you cut the value of CR experience down to match. Such as using the half the values of my system above and then halfing the value of CRs.
So I've developed one of my own:
Code:
[color=white][size=2]
The base XP value for a 'unit' is 45*character level.
? 2 units given for each plot hook a player manages
to get introduced into the game per session. 3 if it plays a big role.
? A Sub-Plot is any deviation in the normal
storyline. Any side trips or unscheduled
interactions.
An example would be relationships people form
with non critical NPCs. Or small side mini
adventures not initiated by the DM.
? 3 units for achieving the current plot's goals.
2 for progressing towards them.
1 for simply not veering off or going backwards on them.
? 1 unit for signifigant non-combat NPC interaction.
2 if that interaction is not tied to 'adventuring
challenges'. This can stack with the in character
dialogue bonus.
? 1-2 units for giving me a written journal for the character, which includes
their thoughts on current events and any other topic the character might
come up with. 1 for 500 words. 2 for 1000 words. If in epic poem format
it is judged per page when I set it to 12pt Times New Roman/14pt leading.
1 for 1 page. 2 for 2 or more pages.
? This helps me out a lot. So I reward it. You could say the
character is learning by reflecting on their actions.
? 1 unit for demonstrating a 'shining example' of the character's core
concept. 2 if it also exemplifies their alignment.
? 1 unit for active participation. Where most players will fall.
A player who does nothing or only the occasional thing that session gets 0
of this. The most active participant(s) will likely earn extra XP in the other
categories so rewarding them here would cause an undesired double bonus.
? 1 unit for demonstrating effective teamwork. Cancelled for any members
who work against the team at any point in the session.
? 1 unit for enabling player interaction. This is where by your actions or
roleplay you enable other players to become more involved in actions,
roleplay, and making choices rather than just following along.
? 1 unit for consistently using 'in character descriptive narrative' in combat
or out. 2 units if in both.
? This is a bonus for describing your actions in non game-mechanical terms.
How your character does it.
Conversing with the PCs and NPCs rather than stating what you said.
If activity is counterproductive to the PLAYERS
enjoyment all XP for that session is cut to 0. Note that I say
PLAYERS and not the adventure or the characters. You can
completely destroy the adventure and lay waste to half the party
and still get XP awarded if the players present had fun doing it.
I don't expect everyone to pull off everything all the time.
The goal here is to have one level progression for every 3-5 sessions.
The story based is set to 1 level every 4 sessions if you get 5.5 units per session.[/size][/color]I use this system instead of using CRs. The DMG recommends that if you use anything other than just CRs for challenges you cut the value of CR experience down to match. Such as using the half the values of my system above and then halfing the value of CRs.
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