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space philosophies

reason

First Post
The philosophies of the technological future will be complicated, specialized things. E.g. see the notes here:

[transhumanist setting riff] the locusts come [Archive] - RPGnet Forums

This is a setting of baroque philosophy in addition to everything else. As a Locust, little else defines you as strongly as the way you think about things. Locust actions stem directly from Locust philosophy in a very Randian way; what you are is defined by the convictions you hold. Locusts are Locusts because their originator instance found the mindswarm anathema. All the proxies for strength of individuality are important to their culture: ego, conviction, bring shown to be right, embracing a philosophy of action, and so forth. Equally, the threat that the Locusts pose to Nuva Sierra is less one of rampant antimatter bombing and more one of a wave of newthought to overwhelm the stable Nuva Green sociology. Locust philosophies, even the half-baked ones, are mindcandy to the more proactive or rebellious members of Nuva Sierra's Generation Five.

Humanonihilism: ethical nihilism. Nothing has meaning, either because there is no prior purpose encoded in the visible light cone, or because everything will end. If there is an end, then everything that happened prior to that end has no meaning in the long view. But this is a nihilism informed by the tenets of old humanist thought; lack of meaning is not a sufficient reason to do as you please. The past does not matter, the future does not matter; only now is where any form of meaning can exist, and that meaning is isolated and contained in the now.

Compassionate Nihilism: a philosophy of ending; existence without meaning is a form of torment. Therefore sentiences should either be restructured so as not to suffer that torment, or compassionately destroyed. This is a philosophy often claimed as a form of provocation; those who truly hold it, advocate it, and act upon it are not commonplace.

Relinquist Neoplastism: an pseudo-economic philosophy that draws upon some aspects of first generation post-scarcity communism. The root of evil is competition for resources. Only by stepping back from that contest, and instead engaging in contests of gifting can there be economic growth. This is primarily a philosophy of expansionism: how to organize assignment of resources that lie outside a rights-enforcing spacetime, but then made available through the expanded frontier.

The Chameleophilsophic Imperative: the only way to assure societal harmony is to wear/take on/fully embody and comprehend the philosophy of whomever it is you are presently dealing with. This is a splinter of a much larger set of harmonist philosophies that examine the solution space of methodologies for closed, ordered, complex societies to function without excessive friction or disintegration.

Omnineutrality: a Zen-descendant collection of memes, also informed by later nihilist branches. Life is a passage from infinite connectivity to infinite disconnectedness. Connections in this context are anything that ties an ego to the universe. The end goal of the practicing omnineutral, as opposed to the dabbler, is to die completely disconnected from obligation, other people, and all ties to the physical universe - but at the right time, and with the right acts leading up to that end. Dabblers are more often than not misanthropes or multiphobes who have found an agreeable spiritualism for their mindset.

Ascensionism: a variety of philosophies that consider the merits of the progression of societies or individuals to greater levels of complexity or sentience. The most important split is probably between totiascensionism, which at its most dogmatic calls for the conversion of all matter (including existing sentiences) into sentience-running-comptronium, and enlightened ascensionism, which has more to do with individuals and societies finding their own way to greater levels of sentience.

And so forth; that barely touches upon the foaming breadth of Locust philosophical thought. One might claim that philosophy and violence are the twin pillars of Locust culture.

Another spiritualist refuge against the forces of occamic realism goes by the name of quantative diatomism. Variants of diatomism are mostly based on the (somewhat half-baked) belief that remaining paradoxes in higher level physical models can be explained away by a n=2 case of many world theories: a second and untouchable universe paralleling what can be shown to exist. But no Locust is in a position of knowledge to directly validate the underlying models or theorems, and info-libraries are not exactly unbiased. In practice diatomism looks very much like a form of quantum mechanical vitalism, a sociological defense mechanism against nihilist thought, but also a form of belief in an intangible world in which structures survive their demise in the observable universe. Locust instances who have convinced themselves of their survival beyond the real are somewhat more dangerous than those who cling to standard archetypal per-instance views of mortality.

Reason
Principia Infecta
 

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Janx

Hero
Is there an alternative to quantum physics you had in mind? (ie. An alternative which is more than just a "theory").

of course not. If I don't have the background to fully understand quantum physics, how would I have the background to understand an alternative physics model?

What I accept however, is that which a scientist in the know accepts as true today, may be disproven tomorrow as a more complex and better understanding emerges. Which is the foundation of the scientific method.

most of the other sciences operate at the directly observable level. quantum physics does not. at some point, it's just math and a good idea.

Remember, folks thought Ether and Phlogiston was also a pretty good explanation as well.

Assuming a contunuing rate of technological advance, in the future, scientists will have the technology to make it very obvious* whether today's current theories are correct or not. But then, they will begin seeking to have the new uncuttable and present theories and math on that.
*Obvious to normal people as in Higgs Hair Restorer Cream and teleporters, and pictures as pretty as the ones from Saturn
 

halfjack

First Post
most of the other sciences operate at the directly observable level. quantum physics does not. at some point, it's just math and a good idea.

I don't get what's special about direct observation (assuming there even is such a thing) -- QED makes predictions which are so reliably true and so accurate that we use them all the time in critical technology. It's as true as it gets by any useful measurement. Any new theory cannot invalidate QED since the effects will not change -- all we can really expect are refinements. Those might come from models that are very different but create the same results, of course.

Also "just a theory" is probably not where you want to start in on a discussion of philosophy of science. Theories are usually extremely well established -- they need not be in any doubt at all. The colloquial use of the word is almost unrelated to the scientific use.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
most of the other sciences operate at the directly observable level.

I don't believe that's true. Much of today's science is working down at the molecular level, these days. Your chemists are working by spectrograph, not direct visual examination. Your biologists and doctors are relying on things like blood chemistry analysis where all they see is a printout of results from a machine. Much of the best astronomy these days is done in the infrared and radio bands, which are not observable by the human eye.


Remember, folks thought Ether and Phlogiston was also a pretty good explanation as well.

Yes, but nobody ever built a device that required those, that actually worked! When tests were developed that could actually test them, those things *failed*. As opposed to your smartphone, which attests to QM actually working.
 

Janx

Hero
I don't believe that's true. Much of today's science is working down at the molecular level, these days. Your chemists are working by spectrograph, not direct visual examination. Your biologists and doctors are relying on things like blood chemistry analysis where all they see is a printout of results from a machine. Much of the best astronomy these days is done in the infrared and radio bands, which are not observable by the human eye.

those are good points. (bear in mind, I am not fool enough to argue actual science with Umbran, he does this stuff for a living).

Though we may have identified a philosphy for the OP. People who don't trust that something is true until it has been verified in as absolute terms as possible. String theory might be true, but I don't have a Quantum Guitar to play yet. Aliens might exist, but we haven't been to another planet that has life yet.

Yes, but nobody ever built a device that required those, that actually worked! When tests were developed that could actually test them, those things *failed*. As opposed to your smartphone, which attests to QM actually working.

As always, I'm ignorant, but I don't know that cellphones are designed with a quantum physicist on staff. I know that servers and processors aren't.

The conciept I see is that because QM is a building block science, it claims ownership and definition of all other sciences because it defines atoms, electricity, gravity, light and all the stuff everything else is made of. Of course all the other sciences obey the laws of QM, it's because the QM laws define the other laws.

But somebody working on a processor or a new cellphone communication protocol isn't considering the laws of QM. They are beyond the scope of concern.*
*If my statement is correct, it is probably becoming less correct as things get smaller and more impacted by QM concerns. the guy who made ENIAC had no concern over QM.
 

Umbran

Mod Squad
Staff member
Supporter
As always, I'm ignorant, but I don't know that cellphones are designed with a quantum physicist on staff. I know that servers and processors aren't.

And, you'd be incorrect once you get to processors.

But somebody working on a processor or a new cellphone communication protocol isn't considering the laws of QM. They are beyond the scope of concern.*

Yes, but ENIAC used vacuum tubes. And while you're correct that the protocols don't care about QM, the physical hardware that puts the protocol to use does.

You've heard the word "semiconductor" right? Well, that comes out of solid state physics, which is quantum mechanics applied to the behavior of electrons in materials. Every single processor and memory chip in existence relies upon quantum mechanics. All those LEDs? Every laser, your microwave oven, the fluorescent lights that illuminate the stores you visit, the light receptor in your digital camera. The processes that occur in nuclear reactors. The processes that make the sun hot.

I think you get my point.
 

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